Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby escotregen » Tue Jul 08, 2008 4:22 pm

Dugal we will have to agree that we have different perceptions on all of this. You say that baffle wall and reinforced closes were well-established before the bombing started. In fact such measures were woefully inadequate and were as much as anything to reassure a fearful civilian population - a bombed tenement collapsing on you was an odd sort of 'protection'. They were akin to the later generation of officials who advised you to ‘Stay and Protect’ in your own home in the event of a nuclear attack – gesture activities to keep the civilians at least out of the way in the context of lacking the capacity to do much else.

You say that “One must bear in mind again, that these people in municipal authority were coping with something the vast majority of them had never experienced.”. Well, quite – but it’s a bit much to make such an assertion, and then assert that, “When it comes to preparedness, I firmly believe our authorities in Glasgow performed wonders!”. Either they knew and so were prepared or they were not.

I would have to do more research before commenting more on your assertion that; “The city, through the schools, evacuated an enormous number of children from Glasgow to safe places all over Scotland, before the war even got under way. This massive exodus was all accomplished by and large in one day!”. I can only say that that does not tally with what I have read previously about the need to suddenly relocate hundreds of families, including children, after the start of the raids in Glasgow’s Western areas and Clydebank.

Certainly one of the most moving testimonies I read was of an elderly man in the 1990s describing how as a boy he was the only survivor among a group including his mother, baby sister and the woman and kids from across the landing who were all cowering in his living room when the close received a direct hit. Another testimony was about a wee girl who the day after the start of the raids found herself billeted on relatives in Lanarkshire who she hated so much she escaped from and walked all the way home to Dalmuir!

I think you repeat a serious error in history that Roxburgh made, when you say that “Before the war the closest thing Glasgow's leaders had to enlighten them what an air raid would be like came out of H.G. Wells' books”. That is wholly untrue. Europe outside the Axis powers witnessed aghast and horrified in the 1930s at what happened in Spain (there was, after all, the Guernica massacre and the assistance lent by the Luftwaffe to Franco) and in the extensive Japanese air-raid experimentation and ‘success’ in China. In particular, Glasgow's left movement had a proud part in the International Brigade in the Spanish civil war and the brought the true horrors back home with them.

As early as Baldwin’s Tory Government of the mid inter-war period he came out with the famous/infamous “the bomber will always get through”. Indeed, the knowledge and expectation of what the bombing would do was a large factor in defeatist thinking particularly among the upper classes in the UK. My interpretation is that they knew and they were ill-prepared –how much did they prioritise protection for the civilians? A Roxburgh says ‘there were other priorities. Hmm...

As for the Anderson shelters not being in short supply, we had an entertaining and informative previous run-through here on the scams and deals folks got up to to acquire shelters. You say that “After the Blitz, shelters were partly furnished by the people 'up the close' who were served by it, and taken much more seriously.” I’m sorry Dugald but I cannot agree with that perception- especially since you state after the Blitz. There were some cases, undoubtedly, at the outset of hostilities when this was the case – and doubtless much promoted by the propaganda officials.

But the mundane reality was that people greatly detested the shelters. They were generally crude and basic and as often as not overcrowded when needed – and remember that was in an era when scabies, fleas etc. were not uncommon; keeping your personal space and privacy was a fundamental public health art for both the poor and the better-off. You didn't want to be sitting cooped-up with all sorts for hours in an unhealthy, fearful and darkened atmosphere; that was the reality of the nonsense about the ‘spirit of the Blitz’.

What I do know from my interviews of wartime civilians veterans in the Rutherglen and Maryhill areas, is that after the Blitz, there was popular agitation to have the shelters demolished and removed because they had became insanitary and the ‘venues for other dirty doings’.

In revising and re-interpreting the ‘official approved popular’ version of what happened in WW2 bombing in Glasgow, we need to remember that overall it was Whitehall that ran things. Whitehall is of course London, and two episodes say a lot about their mindset and what they really thought of the civilian population. They were capable of a lot worse than the episode you doubt regarding the “account of the ARP Service abandoning a living boy in the debris of a bombed building because there was no light”.

The first point was that the working class East Enders of London at the height of the Blitz had to take over the deep Tube shelters by sheer weight of numbers. The authorities who had made little other provision for them (despite what you may say about the supply of Anderson shelters) were threatening prosecution and force to keep them out. A strong factor in the Establishment’s motives were preoccupations about the ‘hygeine problem’ that the ‘working class sort’ would pose by gathering in the Tube.

The second episode was how evacuation was still going on when the Blitz started. I cannot quickly source the details of the incident, but this was the one where all the school kids from an East End Borough were all brought together one afternoon for urgent evacuation after a nights bombing. Due to a massive cock-up on the part of the Borough and London Transport officials, there was wholly insufficient buses made available, with the result that the kids were all crudely billeted (i.e. herded) into the local school for the night. Almost inevitably, there was worse bombing that night and the school took a massive direct hit.

The causalities of dead school kids were in the hundreds, but could never be fully determined. That was partly due to the carnage, but it was also due to the unseemly rush of officialdom to have the whole thing brushed over, cleared, hushed up – and literally buried. No one was brought to account, no recompense or admission was ever made by the Borough or higher officialdom. It was just a few years ago that the was recovered. I believe that a memorial was erected there last year?

I really believe that it’s important that we show the victims, the survivors and the often-unsung true heroes of those times, the respect of striving after the facts and true history. Both of which the authorities of the day and today misuse and misrepresent for their own purposes.
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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby Roxburgh » Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:13 pm

Okay, this is partly off topic as it does not relate directly to Glasgow but it is on topic as it relates to the bombing.

My mother was living in a Manchester suburb when war broke out (she came to Glasgow in 1953) and, as she is still alive, I called her to get her view of what happened taking this discussion as a basis for my questions. She was 13 in 1939 and nearly 15 when Manchester experienced heavy bombing.

First of all the evacuation ........ my mother was evacuated in September 1939 and did not come back until Easter 1940. Many came back after just one term because nothing had happened in the war. But as she really enjoyed living with the family where she was evacuated, she stayed longer (she remained in touch for many years and I was taken to visit when I was a teenager). Her memory and perception is that the evacuation was very quick and very well organized. It went very smoothly.

Now to the subject of preparedness ............. first of all, most people did not know much about what was going on and she has no idea as to how prepared or unprepared the authorities were. Her view is that perceptions will vary greatly based on individual experience. She also believes that the local authorities did not know much about what was going on either.

The world was a different place in 1939. There were not the communications we have to day or any real understanding of what was happening elsewhere. She was only able to put her wartime experience into the context of the bigger picture through reading after the war.

Again, from my mother's perspective, they simply did not worry about being bombed. For most people, the war was all in France just as in WW1 and they just assumed it would stay there. They really didn't think much about the bombing until it actually happened and that was not until after we had won the Battle of Britain. So over a year after the start of the war.

She believes that there was a great deal of complacency at the time. After France fell, everyone wondered how we were going to win. People assumed we would win as "we were British and had an empire - we always won". I think it fair to hypothesise that this complacency also affected the local authorities.

On the subject of shelters, they had an Anderson in the back garden. They did not use it once. It was "horrible" and usually had water in it. There was a communal shelter in a field near the house with bunk beds and that was used by all the neighbours. However, she commented that her mother often had great difficulty getting her and my uncle out of bed and, I have noted, this is a common comment in other oral histories. So how many died because they did not go to the shelters?

My mother was "bombed out" once when an unexploded landmine landed just 100 yards away. Bombed out people were housed in local halls and church halls and slept on mattresses although my mother went to stay with her aunt. It was a fortnight before they could go home because they had to wait till the unexploded bomb was defused.

In Manchester, the heavy bombing was in December 1940 for about 2 days. They were 6 miles out of the centre and the sky was bright red over the centre of Manchester from the incendiaries. At her school, the staff took turns to fire watch and put out quite a lot of fires. Most of casualties were in the centre of towns which is where the poorer areas were so they were disproportionately affected.

She distinctly remembers the whistle of the bombs which were quite loud.


Now for my bit.

I think the authorities probably were unprepared and for a number of reasons.

1. Lack of any direct experience of bombing. There is a difference between a conceptual understanding of the horrors and the reality of preparing for it. Yes, there had been bombing in Spain and elsewhere but that does not mean that the authorities had any real understanding as to how to prepare for it.

2. Complacency. The heavy bombing was over a year after the war started. The authorities did a very good job of evacuation but when nothing happened everyone, including the authorities, got complacent.

3. After the fall of France and with the huge losses in shipping in the Battle of the Atlantic, investment by central government was not being channeled into civil defence. It was going to re-equip the army and build more ships. Bombing did not stop production. My Great Aunt worked in a munitions factory and they continued working despite the fact that it had no roof due to bombing.
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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby Dugald » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:39 pm

Escotregen, a very fine comprehensive epistle! Now I must see if I can answer your variety of questions, or at least comment on them. To give your epistle the comprehensive reply it deserves, I'm going to reply to it piecemeal.

"You say that baffle wall and reinforced closes were well-established before the bombing started."

First of all, I meant before the real bombing, like the Clydeside Biltz. I am not talking about before the bombs fell in the Tinto Park in Govan early in 1940. I do not think that baffle walls and reinforced closes were simply a hollow reassurance to a fearful civilian population; not at all. The baffle walls afforded for example, a fair measure of protection for the people sheltering in the close from explosive blasts. The "timbered closes" offered a great deal more protection than say, a plastered ceiling in a "two-up-the-middle" flat. On the night of the Blitz all the people up my close stood around the inside of the close, or sat in the first house inside the close, all through both raids. The bottom flat seemed a natural safest part of the tenement... and we had no baffle wall or timbered close!

"...a bombed tenement collapsing on you was an odd sort of 'protection'"

If by a "bombed tenement " you mean a direct hit, well, we all knew there was no protection against that, a fact of which we were all well aware. The timbered closes offered great protection from many different forms of damage, but not a direct hit. If the house across the street for example, got a direct hit from a 200lb bomb, tough luck for them; but those sheltering in the timbered close across the street had a good chance of survival.

Regarding the 'Stay and Protect' govt. advice, this does not apply to the good sense in telling people to avail themselves of whatever form of protection is available... yes, even the underground toilets at the Govan Cross! I do not believe there was ever a time in WWII, in any theatre, when it did not make good sense to take steps for one's protection, regardless of how meagre it may have seemed. Even during the worst days of the Berlin holocaust people sheltered and survived horrendous bombing and shelling the likes of which Glasgow never suffered.

"One must bear in mind again, that these people in municipal authority were coping with something the vast majority of them had never experienced.".

Nah Escotregen , I don't think this was "a bit much" of an assertion. The "preparedness" evidenced by the Glasgow authorities, and to which I referred, was a "preparedness" based on their knowledge before, and the immediate aftermath, of war being declared. Matters changed very quickly after about June 10th 1940, when a much different "preparedness" was required... and once again Glasgow authorities made a great effort towards this modified preparedness. (I'm thinking here of anti-invasion measures and the like.)
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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby Dugald » Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:46 pm

Socceroo, you say:

' Dugald, where did i quote Andrew Jeffrey's book as stating "Over a couple of dozen corpses were left lying openly unattended..." I did not state this in the passage from his book.'

Socceroo, you are correct, I erred, you did not say this, I am at fault. I quoted the wrong author. Sorry about that...
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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby Dugald » Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:34 pm

Another part answer to your post Escotregen:

"The city, through the schools, evacuated an enormous number of children from Glasgow to safe places all over Scotland, before the war even got under way"

I think the problem you are having with this Escotregen, is that there were really two quite distinct Evacuations from Glasgow. The one to which the above quotation refers was the first one, the major one, the much more comprehensive one right at the start of the war. This is the one under which I was evacuated. The second one took place in March 1941 after the Clydeside blitz (I did not take part in this one). All the schools in Glasgow did not close after the second one, and it was much less intrusive to the way of life in Glasgow, than the one in Sept '39. You speak of "hundreds of families"; the one about which I originally spoke, involved hundreds of thousands of families throughout the UK.
The testimony about the little girl from Dalmuir is of course about just one of the many children who did not fair well in the second Evacuation. There were countless similar sad cases in the major Evacuation too, but we can hardly blame the Glasgow authorites for them. When I arrived at my destination I proved to be a problem and they solved it very quickly. Glasgow did it well, and I believe they did their best. I tell you, had I been someone involved in organising the big Evacuation, I'd have been a damned proud person!

"Before the war the closest thing Glasgow's leaders had to enlighten them what an air raid would be like came out of H.G. Wells' books".

In writing this I was thinking of the pre-war era of Chamberlain's policy of appeasement, and how quite a number of references were made to the Wells' books, which had created a horrifying, if somewhat exaggerated, expectation, of aerial bombing. What happened in Spain and China were not looked upon as major international events in the Glasgow of the late 1930's... there was a helluva lot more on the Glaswegian plates. I believe Picasso's painting of the so-called "Guernica massacre" did more to publicise what allegedly happened, than what actuallty did happen. We learned more about the German Condor Squadron after WWII, than we did before WWII. The Guernica bombing was eventually grossly exaggerated. Europe "aghast and horrified"? Nah, I don't think so. Glasgow's left movement may well have had a proud part in the International Brigade in the Spanish civil war, but there were very few of them and at the time they hardly made a big splash in Glasgow's media. I don't feel my quotation above was with regard to something untrue.

(An aside: In Greenfield School we had a refugee boy from Spain. I still recall his name .. Angel Pinto. Geez, he was from the other side of the world! Spain was not a venue for weekend jaunts back then).
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Protect and Survive

Postby Dexter St. Clair » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:17 pm

Listen ya cheeky young pups just because Dugald painted his windows White in the eighties does not meant to say he's gullible.

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"I before E, except after C" works in most cases but there are exceptions.
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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby Dugald » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:53 pm

This is the last part of my answer to you post for today Escotregen:

Yes, I too recall Baldwin's famous/infamous "the bomber will always get through".claim ( they nearly always did by the way). If my memory serves me, it was an Italian aviation expert who first came up with this assertion. I agree with you, the expectation of such bombing had a great deal to do with Chamberlain's policy of appeasement, but I don't think it was especially among the upper classes in the UK... the joyous welcome Chamberlain got at Croydon on his return from his "peace in our time" trip to Germany was shared by the vast majority of people in the UK., if not Europe. Glasgow authorities I assume were just as happy about it as anyone.

When you say "My interpretation is that they knew and they were ill-prepared", I assume the "they" you are speaking about were British authorities rather than Glaswegian. If so, then I think this belongs on another thread... Perhaps the "WWII Stuff" thread.

Regarding Anderson shelters, I'm sure there were lots of scams but I'd guess most deserving people got them eventually. You know, I assume, that Anderson shelters were not provided for tenement buildings. The tenements had the big substantial brick shelters with heavy girders supporting the roof. Anderson shelters were for private homes etc. They were in all the back yards on Crossloand Rd ("new" houses).. After the blitz, we used ours and so did all the people up the close... we never went into the close house during a raid again during the war. My family gave one bed towards furnishing our shelter, and we all helped in the cleaning of it...this is a fact, I helped with all of the work.

I was never in an overcrowded air-raid shelter, (not even in the school dungeon!). I did not detest air-raid shelters. I may have had fleas, but I never had scabies. Keeping one's personal space and privacy was never a problem where I lived. We were all working -class people. Geez, the people we shared the shelter with were the same people we lived alongside virtually every day of our lives: they were the kids and people we played with, fought with, courted, shopped with... we were all the same! We didn't sit 'cooped-up with all sorts for hours in an unhealthy, fearful and darkened atmosphere". We sat and sang, played games, told stories, or slept. I stood on the stage at the Vogue Cinema during an air-raid and sang "I'm gonna lock my Heart and throw away the key" and I got a rousing Govan cheer. Heck we're talking about Glasgow! Well, I tell you Escotregen, the spirit I saw in Govan whether in the cinema, or an air-raid shelter measured up to this 'spirit of the Blitz' you mention... it was real.
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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby jack_parlabane » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:09 am

My Mum stays in Old Drumchapel and one of the neighbours said that my mum's house was damaged during the war.
I've stumbled accross this picture of the church just round the corner.

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Drumchapel St Andrews Parish Church Garscadden Road.
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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby escotregen » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:30 am

[url]Listen ya cheeky young pups just because Dugald painted his windows White in the eighties does not meant to say he's gullible.[/url]

Dexter I'm glad to read that you're still calling me young :) Of course no-one is patronising or belittling Dugald. As you can read, he has heavily qualified and clarified much of what he originally posted, and that's all well and to the good - it's how we can all arrive at some kind broad consensus on the actual history :wink:
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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby escotregen » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:47 am

Well Dugal, as I said, best we accept that we have very different perspectives on all of this. Certainly I cannot accept your disturbing statement:

We learned more about the German Condor Squadron after WWII, than we did before WWII. The Guernica bombing was eventually grossly exaggerated. Europe "aghast and horrified"? Nah, I don't think so.


Can I suggest you start by referring to:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/system ... /Guernica/

On a final note, there’s a world of difference between appeasement (pre-war) and defeatism (after the outbreak of war) it’s important in the context of British/English WW2 history not to not to confuse the two.
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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby Socceroo » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:22 pm

Superb Photo Jack Parlabane, glad someone introduced a photo to break up the we wur really ready fur the bombers naw we wurnae posts :D

I don't think anything can really prepare you for the likelihood of someone dropping high explosives from a great height but there were different levels of preparedness that Glasgow and Scotland were supposed to achieve. By reading quite widely on the subject and from access to Archives i have noted the admission of the various Burghs (including Glasgsow) of areas where they were not fully prepared for a sustained Bombing campaign against them.

Before i dig out the Archive material that i have copies of, here is another snippet from Andrew Jeffrey's excellent "Glasgow, The West of Scotland and the North Western Approaches in the Second World War" :

"In no respect was Britain as a whole, and Scotland in particular, less prepared for war than in the field of Air - Raid Precautions. The civil defence services, whose job it was to deal with the effects of bombing, were hopelessly ill-trained, ill-equipped and hamstrung both by public apathy and the petty jealousies of their political master. This situation did not improve to any measurable degree in Scotland until the danger of attack was long past."

Now Dugald, don't jump in and say i disagree Socceroo, because (1) We already know that and (2) It is not my words, they are (this time) Andrew Jeffrey's.

He goes on further :

"At the end of 1935, local authorities in considered Scottish Office circular no. 3026, which required them to take the first tentative steps on ARP provision. The response from most authorities was to do precisely nothing. Labour controlled councils in particular took the view, in line with party policy, that preparations for war would inevitably lead to war.

George Lansbury, the Labour Leader, declared at the party conference in October 1935 that 'those who take the sword shall perish by the sword'. This strongly pacifist view was echoed by much of the party in Scotland including David Kirkwood, Clydebank's MP, who stated that he was all out for peace in the real sense and would not send a Clydebank boy to war on any consideration. No war for me under any circumstances."


The 1935 position of the Labour Party cited above is my understanding of their position at that time also, however as we move nearer to the start of the War, my own research throws up the Labour Party in Scotland arguing for Deep Shelters for the population whilst Whitehall was telling them that they did not need them.

He goes on :

"An electorate with bitter memories of the terrible cost of the 1914 - 18 War was only too willing to agree. Sadly, the idealism of Lansbury, Kirkwood and others took no account of the fact that, with the advent of long - range bombers, war could no longer be kept at arm's length.

Glasgow Corporation appointed its ARP committee in November 1936. The Corporation promptly refused its new committee free use of the city's halls for lectures by ARP and Red Cross instructors. Only in late 1937, when compelled by the Scottish Office, did most authorities fall into line. Some, including ironically, Clydebank Town Council, continued to pay little more than lip service to the issue until the Munich Crisis erupted at the end of 1938.

Woefully inadequate intelligence combined with muddle - headed thinking by British military strategists to produce wildly unrealistic over - estimates of the strength and capabilities of the Luftwaffe. It was generally believed that that the declaration of war would be followed, within hours, by massive air - raids and that much of Scotland would be laid to waste before a month was out. It was said that the enemy bombers would roam, unmolested, in Scottish skies, dropping bombs and spreading clouds of poison gas at will. The Scottish Home and Health Department sent coded telegrams to hospital officers requesting that, by the end of the first week of war, 12,000 beds should be cleared to accept air - raid casualties. Thousands of extra stretchers were provided.

An already jittery public had their fears heightened by the film 'Things to come', H.G. Wells' view of the probable nature of air - raids. This fiction was widely taken too much to heart and popular support for the appeasement policies of Neville Chamberlain grew."
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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby Dugald » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:59 pm

So Escotregen, the East End Borough and the London Transport officials fouled up plans to evacuate children. Foul-ups of this type are not uncommon in any organisation, in peace or in war... especially where school buses are involved! But what does "crudely billeted" mean? Probably that they spent the night in a school or a church; I don't know, but I don't think it would have been bad enough to merit "crudely". I believe the people looking after children would be experienced enough to avoid referring to their chaperoning as "herding". The direct hit from a bomb was pure chance and had nothing to do with the organsational foul up.

Of course officialdom would rush to clear up signs of carnage. Wouldn't you have done likewise if you had been an official at the height of bombing in a war? Wouldn't you wish to relieve the population of thoughts about such tragedies? I would. We never heard of the Lancastria tragedy until long after it happened, and I believe this made good sense. What purpose would have been served by reporting all the terrible details?

During the war many heroes remained "unsung". It would be extremely difficult to recognise every heroic action. I recognise this and I think the authorities do too. Scotland has many war memorials and it is through these that a recognition is assumed. I don't believe authorities intentionally hide actions of "unsung heroes"; why would they?

I'll wrap it up now Escotregen. That certainly was a comprehensive piece of work you posted it made a big contribution to this thread. In responding to your many interesting points I think I learned a lot. I'm sure it all served the purpose of obtaining a better selection of ideas and reminiscences of Glasgow during WWII.

Cheers.
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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby Dugald » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:31 pm

A superb post Roxburgh! You agree by and large with the major points I have been trying to make, so I don't think I need go through a detailed discussion of the experiences of your mother in Manchester, which were, to a very large extent much the same as my own.
One thing which I failed to mention, and which you remind us of, that is very important is:

'For most people, the war was all in France just as in WW1 and they just assumed it would stay there..."

This was true to a very large extent; the war was miles away. Thoughts like this, despite some early 1940 bombing, prevailed among the Glasgow people right through to the late summer of 1940.
Both you and I have tried to emphasize that "The world was a different place in 1939.". This is so true, and only with a real appreciation of what it means, can one judge just how authorities at all levels behaved.

Roxburgh wrote:Now for my bit.

I think the authorities probably were unprepared and for a number of reasons.

1. Lack of any direct experience of bombing. There is a difference between a conceptual understanding of the horrors and the reality of preparing for it. Yes, there had been bombing in Spain and elsewhere but that does not mean that the authorities had any real understanding as to how to prepare for it.

2. Complacency. The heavy bombing was over a year after the war started. The authorities did a very good job of evacuation but when nothing happened everyone, including the authorities, got complacent.

3. After the fall of France and with the huge losses in shipping in the Battle of the Atlantic, investment by central government was not being channeled into civil defence. It was going to re-equip the army and build more ships. Bombing did not stop production. My Great Aunt worked in a munitions factory and they continued working despite the fact that it had no roof due to bombing.


Again i find myself thinking basically on the same plane as yourself. There is nothing here with which I'd disagree.
I was really ready to read your post Roxburgh... a measure of agreement is always enjoyable! Cheers,
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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby Dugald » Wed Jul 09, 2008 2:38 pm

escotregen wrote:[url]Listen ya cheeky young pups just because Dugald painted his windows White in the eighties does not meant to say he's gullible.[/url]
Dexter I'm glad to read that you're still calling me young :) Of course no-one is patronising or belittling Dugald. As you can read, he has heavily qualified and clarified much of what he originally posted, and that's all well and to the good - it's how we can all arrive at some kind broad consensus on the actual history :wink:


Escotregen I like your

"it's how we can all arrive at some kind broad consensus on the actual history :wink"

Sums it up, makes it worthwhile.

Re Dexter's comment. It is only rarely i understand what Dexter's one-liners are saying, and this one is no exception. what the heck does "painted his windows White " mean? Ah, just a rhetorical question, it's probably better at times not to understand what the one-liners mean.
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Re: Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

Postby Roxburgh » Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:01 pm

Dugald et al.

One good thing coming out of this thread. I intend to take a full and comprehensive oral history of her wartime experience from my mother while she is still with us.
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