How much are our photos worth?

[robertpool]

In the past few months l have been approached on three seperate occations by PR or publishing companies to let them use my photographs in their publications. Each one of them said "sorry we cant pay you anything but we will credit you with the photograph". So can anyone tell me what a photograph is worth, surely it can't be nothing.

[dave2]

The slightly silly answer is 'as much as someone will pay for it'. You could at a minimum ask for teh expenses involved in taking the picture - time, petrol etc.

I guess it depends - I have a friend who wanted to get into the photography industry, and he would let companies have one picture for free(with a credit) but after that he would charge. He now works about 1/3 of his time on photography commissions, and his old job the rest. I think his photos must also have gone to an agency, as he often mentions them being in the Scotsman or Herald group's local papers.

Equally a school friend back home got into Photography via journalism, and now works full time doing journalism and magazine photo shoots of houses, people, places, new stories furntiture etc and earns more than any of teh rest of us in that class at school. He works 80-100 hours a week though.

[AlanM]

It depends on the image and who wants to use it and what they want it for.

The fee for a small circulation local newspaper will be a lot less than from The Sun.

A book from a major publisher would command a much higher fee than a pamphlet for a charity.

The absolute minimum would be around £20-£30 for one off use of a shot to several hundred or even thousands for exclusive use for something like an advertising campaign for a large multinational (I know that some folk from a group on Flickr got a large sum from Adobe who used their images on the packaging for some of their products)

[metal_meg]

So can anyone tell me what a photograph is worth, surely it can't be nothing.

The information in the previous replies is relatively correct.

There is a sad state of affairs at the moment whereby digital cameras (and mobile telephones) have made it ridiculously easy for anyone to take a photograph and instantly have that image available for use.

The actual value of an image has never changed due to digital but the type of person providing the images has and the media will take advantage of that fact. I have a friend who is a professional music photographer and he has found himself in the postion whereby he is now competing with people who are so starstruck and desperate that they will provide images for free in return for free admission and a photo pass to gigs.

The magazines know that there are so many wannabee music photographers who will work for free so use this as a bargaining tool against the established photographers. Established national magazines have recently been offering £15 a shot. Bearing in mind that a gig review or similar usually only uses a single shot, then it becomes obvious that professionals can't afford to spend hours travelling to a gig and then hang about for hours to get £15 at the end.

The problem is of course that the people giving their images away have all the time in the world to play about whereas the professionals need to make a living and juggle a multitude of assignments to make ends meet.

However, magazines and most publications hate to be shown to be cheapskates and the photography side of the NUJ is actively reporting their own members who are not paying the full rate for images - effectively highlighting the fact that certain publications are breaking the very rules that their Union was established to protect.

Have a look at the NUJ Freelance Photographers pricing guide at:-

http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesguide/phpubrat.html

These are the current prices paid for PR photography. I bet a few people will be surprised at the actual going rates.

Remember these are the sort of rates paid to professional photographers, there are always special images that can command much more.

meg

[BrigitDoon]

Blues man with Harp.

Original image will scale to A1 poster size without losing integrity.

EXIF data:

Ambient lighting (no flash)
ISO 1600
Aperture f5.0
Focal length 140 x 1.6 = 224mm
Exposure 1/30th second

Hand held at the unlit end of a marquee at night.

Monkeys with Nokia's don't have the experience to produce this instinctively.

I know it shouldn't be possible to take a photo like this without camera-shake blurring it. But I did...

[BrigitDoon]

Take heart, they'll soon ruin their reputations, those "reputable" publications who are prepared to compromise their output with second rate material. Garbage in, garbage out, all hail the wheelie bin and back to work when it blows over.

An old builder of wisdom observed to me, when I was regaling him about our family's sorry turn of business during a recession in the 'nineties: "Doessn't thee worry, young'un; think of all they cowboys stacking up work for us for when the sun shines..."

I just hope you've made hay while the sun shone.

[metal_meg]

Monkeys with Nokia's don't have the experience to produce this instinctively.

Unfortunately however, there are still plenty of half-decent photographers with DSLR's who can take shots like that and will do it for free! And nobody needs poster sized images for gig reviews etc anyway.

It's not difficult to get a photo pass if you offer to do the photography for free - that's where the problem lies.

Decent image at the going rate or same quality image for free? What one will the magazines take I wonder?

meg

[Peetabix]

There is a sad state of affairs at the moment whereby digital cameras (and mobile telephones) have made it ridiculously easy for anyone to take a photograph and instantly have that image available for use.

Why is that a sad state of affairs?

[potatojunkie]

There is a sad state of affairs at the moment whereby digital cameras (and mobile telephones) have made it ridiculously easy for anyone to take a photograph and instantly have that image available for use.

Why is that a sad state of affairs?

Because it's lead to many publications treating the general public as a source of free images, abusing their goodwill and making life difficult for those trying to make a living from photography.

[Peetabix]

Oh right I didn't know it was all about the money.

[BrigitDoon]

I wonder how many of these people would give away their daubs, or their kiddies' pictures brought home from school?

[Josef]

There is a sad state of affairs at the moment whereby digital cameras (and mobile telephones) have made it ridiculously easy for anyone to take a photograph and instantly have that image available for use.

Why is that a sad state of affairs?

Because it's lead to many publications treating the general public as a source of free images, abusing their goodwill and making life difficult for those trying to make a living from photography.

Oh right I didn't know it was all about the money.

That's a fair point, actually.

Free entrance to a gig that you really want to see, in exchange for a couple of photos? I'm sure I would have taken that in my (very) regular gig-going days.

There is no doubt that professional music photography is of a much higher quality than the amateur equivalent. I'm not so sure that this applies to live gig photography to anything like the same extent, though.

[Peetabix]

I would have bitten your hand off for the opportunity and so would most people. You have to start somewhere.

I don't see why someone's photo taken on a mobile/cheapo camera is any less important than a pro who is there for pure financial gain.

[BrigitDoon]

I wonder...

Is it such a parlous state of affairs when technology falls into the hands of the masses? I watched it happen in the nineties, when at the start very few families had a PC and an internet connection. I held a job as a respected systems analyst and programmer who deputised for the system administrator when needed. We had "proper" computers the size of filing cabinets with nice reassuring LED numbers that cycled back to zero every second to let us know they we're working.

Morons weren't allowed near them. In fact, our office had a security keypad on the door, the code to which even senior management didn't know. The computers were housed in a purpose-built inner sanctum sanctorum with air conditioning.

We were horrified at the spread of PCs.

Every bod from the sales team to the dippy girl on reception who didn't know which way was North on a map of the UK suddenly wanted our advice. Grown men, masters of our printing presses, old enough to have thawed from the last ice age and dragged their knuckles down off the Mendips wanted to know chapter and verse...

After much haggling we wrenched a few bob from our MD and bought a Compaq desktop to install in the office. It looked pretty, but was never going to be more than a bauble. We kept it out of mischief by running a fractal generator on it...

It was never more than a toy. Of course we had to reboot it now and again. Just for a laugh we let our main file server run and run, when the manual said to bring it down and reboot once a week. Eighteen months later and the boss finally screwed it by installing a link, to of all things the PC...

There are people who can always be relied upon to know what they're talking about, experienced, apprenticed or however they've come by their knowledge and evolved their modus operandi. There will always be opportunists ready to make a quick killing and there will always be those ready to pay the fast buck they're looking for to supply the undemanding and primitive public with something frivolous.

In the end, most people realise that cheap tat won't hold a candle to high-end craftsmanship and however the wind blows, the dedicated and diligent craftsman will find that there is a market for his product. He has nothing to fear from those who pretend to his position, just the natural competition from rivals of similar ability.

One only has to look at tabloid newspapers such as The Sun or The Mail, the images within, the banal and sensationalised reportage, to see how a base environment survives and thrives. Surely no-one here would aspire to have their photography published in either of these lavatory rolls?

If the state of gig photography is so parlous, I'd suggest voting with one's feet. There's really no choice in the matter if bread is to be put on the table. It won't be long before the lack of good quality imagery makes itself felt. Cowboys generally do best in a recession and as I pointed out earlier, they stack the work up for professionals come the good times.

One doesn't reap a harvest in the winter.

End of rambling discourse.

Phew!

[Peetabix]

If it wasn't for the morons needing help most SYSADMIN's would be out of a job.

Take pictures, be happy.