South Albion Street

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South Albion Street

Postby mabuzzer » Fri Feb 06, 2009 4:44 pm

Hi All,

First time poster, hope you can help...

I've been doing a bit of digging around the old family tree, and have come across an ancestor (my great-great-great grandfather to be exact) who lived from 1827 - 1897, and died in his shop at 54 South Albion Street.

I've been digging around all over the web to try and find out if the building housing this shop still exists or not, and have come up a blank. This seems like the sort of place where someone might have an answer, though, so here's some questions:

- When did North/South Albion Streets become just Albion Street, and was the Bell St - Trongate part originally Nelson St?
- When the streets were merged, did the numbering change or is it still more or less the same?
- How old are the "old" red sandstone tenements in Albion St? Were they around in the 1890s, for example?
- Where did the old Police Office sit? I know it was there for 79 years til 1906, but the market seems to have occupied the same space from about 1852 onwards, in the spot which is now O'Neills. Can't work out how they fitted together
- Any ideas how I can find out more about my ancestors business itself? Mitchell Library seems to be my best bet, but I don't really know what I'm looking for

That's quite a few questions, but hopefully someone will know the answers, or at least point me in the right direction...

Cheers!
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Re: South Albion Street

Postby Dexter St. Clair » Fri Feb 06, 2009 7:22 pm

City Hall and Bazaar, Candleriggs....bounded by Candleriggs, Canon Street, and South Albion Street,


http://www.rcahms.gov.uk/pls/portal/can ... ink=163683

In 1904 the force appointed its first Chief Inspector of Detectives, and the first Detective Constables were appointed. The Old Central Police Office in South Albion Street closed and a new Central Police Office in Turnbull Street opened as Headquarters of the Glasgow Police on 23 March 1906.


Bunter and McCormack, 12 & 14, South Albion Street, Glasgow. (circa 1884).
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Re: South Albion Street

Postby mabuzzer » Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:55 pm

Hi Dexter, thanks for the reply.

I had seen that page, but didn't think it really helped much. I have now, however, found something which appears to answer at least one of my questions, and possibly others too.

http://www.glasgowmerchantcity.net/trail.htm

Number 8 talks about the markets and City Halls, and mentions that what is now Merchant Square was added in 1907, which is AFTER the Police Office closed. Which makes sense - I had foolishly believed before that the entire Merchant Square/Old Fruitmarket/City Halls complex had been built in the mid 1800's, hence my confusion.

Given that, and the fact that the old Cheese Market (now Arta) was built in 1902, I suspect the other buildings on the road were of a similar era, meaning my ancestors shop is no longer there. His great grandson's (my grandfather's) shop DOES still stand, but is now Curry Heaven on Duke Street.

So that's most of my questions answered - anyone got any ideas of when the street name changed?
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Re: South Albion Street

Postby Its_a_gamp » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:11 pm

mabuzzer wrote:
So that's most of my questions answered - anyone got any ideas of when the street name changed?


Don't know, but can narrow it down to before 1940.

Have a look at the PO directories at the mitchell library, they might help
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Re: South Albion Street

Postby Anorak » Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:15 am

Corner of Bell Street and South Albion Street c.1890.
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Re: South Albion Street

Postby robertpool » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:53 am

I don't know if this is any help to you as you did not name your ancestor

1893 Police Office, 9 South Albion Street

1893 John Black & Sons, Fruit Merchants, 54 South Albion Street
1904 John Black & Sons, Fruit Merchants, 54 South Albion Street

homes:
1893 John Black, 93 Norfolk Street
1893 John Black, 134 Westmuir Street, Parkhead
1893 William Black, 130 Westmuir Street, Parkhead
1893 David Black, 6 Hill Street, Shettleston
1904 David Black, 134 Westmuir Street, Parkhead
1904 William Black, 'Frewenden', Gerrard Ave, Tollcross

1933 John Black & Son, 7 Duke Street

1893 complete listing for Albion Street, North & South

Albion Street, North. 6.
3 Hanley, G. slipper maker
Thompson, Mrs.
9 Eeid, A. jun., baker
11 Little, J. W.
13 M'Lean & Bibby
23 M'Farlane, John
25 M'Farlane, James
M'Gown, W. & Co. wrights
Gray, James
O'Neil, Robert
Eeid, Andrew
27 M'Gregor, D. S.
29-33 Smith, F. & J.
35 Duffy, Philip, spirit merch.
37 Glasgow Salvage Committee
Glasgow Salvage Corps
Postdown, Wm. supcrintendt.
Brownlee, Thomas
White, Wm.
Asher, John
Johnston, James
Riddell, Robert
Cameron, E.
Pratt, Charles
White, John
M'Laren, James
Brown, David
M'Lean, Daniel
Konald, James
Taylor, Charles
Tougher, James
Munn, M. H.
Westmaeott, W.
Gordon, L.
41 Albion Court.
Fraser, J. & G.
Stephen, John
Maclean & Co.
43 Adamson, William
45 Scott, Mrs.
47 Mitchell, Mrs.
Brown, John
Greenlees, Mrs. Mary
Greenlees, John, jun.
Mathers, Mrs.
Hosie, Arch.
Ure, Mrs. J.
49 Air Burning Co., Ltd.
53 Eeid, A. jun., baker
50 Gibb, James
Montgomery, Mrs.
Gibb, Henry
Turnbnll, John
Faulds, J. G.
Fisher, Walter S.
46, 48 Meglaughlin, Marshall, &
Co., produce merchants
40 Greyfrian,' U.P. Church
34 Cochran, John, church officer
Eitchie & Murdoch
32 Nicolson, John
30 Aikman, J. C, com. agent
26 Stewart, Wm. wine and spirit
merchant
College street here
20, 22 Neil, J . baker
18 Neil, James
Craig, Joseph
14 Law, Wm. bpirit mer.
10 Ronald, Herbert
Stewart, W.
Watson, Robt.
Albion Street, South. 6.
9 Police Buildings and Offices;
Boyd, John, chief constable
Orr, John, snpei intendent
Gemmell, J. magistrate
Neilson, Geo. proc,-flscal
South Albion Place.
21 Clement, Andrew, & Son
29 City Hall
31 Cheese Exchange
Hamilton, Hugh
M'Lelland, A.
Templeton, J. & Sona
Stevenson, J. A.
33 Bazaar entrance
35 Stevenson, J. A.
30 Ironside, John
41 Grant, Daniel, & Son
Barrie, E.
Lang, E.
Boyle, Michael
Arnold, Hugh
Ironside, John
47 Milligan, D. glass merchant
49 Kobertson, James, draper
51 Grant, Peter
Milligan, D,
Campbell, W.
Nicholson, John
Ingram street here
66 Boyd, Barrow, & Co.
60 M'Whannel, E. & Co.
Wright, Alex.
56, 58 Henderson, Francis
54 Black, John, & Sons
52 Howard Bros., spirit mers.
Scottish Vintners Co.
Stirling street here
48 Bradshaw, Philip, spirit mer
38 Bradshaw, Philip & Sons
36 Miller, Bob. & Son, Wrights
M'Skimming, Thomas
M'Skimming, IX
12,14, 16 Fulton, Robt. & Co.
10 Clydesdale Fruit Mart
Chalmer, A.
Gray, James, contractor

This would put John Black & Sons next to Howard Bros Public House (PH on the map), on the corner of South Albion Street and Stirling Street
Last edited by robertpool on Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: South Albion Street

Postby Ronnie » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:22 am

robertpool wrote:I don't know if this is any help to you as you did not name your ancestor

1893 Police Office, 9 South Albion Street

1893 John Black & Sons, Fruit Merchants, 54 South Albion Street
1904 John Black & Sons, Fruit Merchants, 54 South Albion Street

homes:
1893 John Black, 93 Norfolk Street
1893 John Black, 134 Westmuir Street, Parkhead
1893 William Black, 130 Westmuir Street, Parkhead
1893 David Black, 6 Hill Street, Shettleston
1904 David Black, 134 Westmuir Street, Parkhead
1904 William Black, 'Frewenden', Gerrard Ave, Tollcross

1933 John Black & Son, 7 Duke Street


Nice work, Robert.
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Re: South Albion Street

Postby mabuzzer » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:25 pm

That's fantastic Robert, thanks a million.

I assume you've got access to some sort of city directories for 1893 and 1904? All of those names are right, and most of the addresses too. David and William were sons of John Black. Gerard Ave is in Tollcross and was renamed Drumother Drive at some point, and later Drumover Drive. The house mentioned, Frewenden, still stands today. I think William Black was almost definitely the original occupant, but I'm not 100% sure of that.

The original John Black was, I think, a cotton weaver in 1841, who later started the grocer's business that lasted until 1961, when my grandfather (3 generations later) passed away.

Looking at the street numbers for South Albion Street, though, I think the shop at 54 would have been on the OTHER side of the Stirling Street corner. The high numbers seem to be at the North end of South Albion Street, so 54 would have been north of 52, not south. 48, however, is ALSO a spirit merchant (Philip Bradshaw) which will presumably be the public house marked on the map.

That's a minor quibble, though, in some fantastic information. Thanks again.
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Re: South Albion Street

Postby Josef » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:54 pm

Apologies for the diversion, but I don't suppose that the 'Granny Blacks' pub round the corner from the Fruitmarket is in any way related?
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Re: South Albion Street

Postby robertpool » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:30 am

as best as l can work out, this would be approx street numbers

Image


Map from 1933

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Re: South Albion Street

Postby mabuzzer » Mon Feb 09, 2009 11:01 am

Hi Josef,

You got me thinking about Granny Black's (sadly, no longer there). According to some pictures I found of their old signage, it was established in 1820, 7 years before John Black was born. As far as I can tell, he was originally a cotton weaver, as was his father before him. I don't know for sure, though, as the records are a bit patchy that far back. I'm guessing if there were a public house in the family it would have been a better paid job than cotton weaving, which was very low paid, so sadly I don't think there is a link. Shame it's gone too - as kids we used to joke about the name whenever we walked past.

And hi Robert - thanks again!

The numbering looks about what I'd thought, based on your list of businesses and individuals. It's interesting to see what's changed between the 2 maps, and what has stayed the same. That block between Stirling St (now Walls St/Blackfriars St) and Ingram St doesn't appear to have changed much in those 40ish years, but has since - there are new-ish flats there now, which I drive past pretty much every day! Feels slightly odd now that I know there's a connection...
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Re: South Albion Street

Postby robertpool » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:01 pm

I'm glad it was some help
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