HBOS

[Dot]

Wonder what is going to happen with the Bank of Scotland notes and if they will stay in circulation once the Lloyds/TSB takeover is in place. Feel sorry for all the people who will have no jobs.
Be interested to see what happens in N. Ireland where there are no Lloyds branches as far as I know and TSB was taken over by First Trust Bank several years ago.
Think First Trust may be owned by the Allied Irish group.

This was the second bit of news I heard in the week which surprised me.
The other was that Zurich Insurance are supposed to be closing their Belfast branch and so papers will be transferred to either the Glasgow or Cardiff branch eventually. Nobody quite sure which.

[Lucky Poet]

Last I heard was that if a bank issues notes here, they must have an HQ here, by law. If the notes stay, then so do some jobs at least. Great consolation huh? What a mess.

On the bright side, the high heid yins will have lavish payoffs and pensions, regardless. Remember, unfettered capitalism works, children. If you disagree then you're a Commie, or somesuch...

[Dave]

I blame the pikeys, not the short traders

[Lucky Poet]

Who are the pikeys? In charge of financial regulation and fiscal policy, I take it?

[Dave]

No, and I suppose I might have been wrong. I blame those that gave the pikeys the right to get involved in the very delicate fabric of the financial system, which ideal was meant for folk WITH money not those without.

p.s. for a description of pikey please use a web search, my definition may be different from other peoples

[Lucky Poet]

Summary of your response: the poor are to blame.

My response: fuck off.

[Dave]

See how basic words can be misconstrued to suit an individuals perception!?

I have no issue with the poor, you must read more definitions of pikey to get a real understanding.

[Lucky Poet]

I dare say there are several meanings of the word. Do me a favour and tell me what you take it to mean, in terms of finance

[Dave]

Well all the shit in america is due to 'sub-prime' lending, which has knock on effects here.

Is it that those who borrowed beyond their means are NOT to blame for any part of the shit most folk are facing.

[Lucky Poet]

Is it that those who borrowed beyond their means are only to blame? Hardly.

In a way I don't blame those parasites who populate the magic Market; they just do what they do, and being angry at them is like being angry at the weather. I blame the Government: the Market is amoral, and it is the job of the state to shield us from its worst excesses, by way of regulation. As the saying goes, even the dogs on the street know that those traders are complete cunts. It's hardly breaking news. Government (on both sides of the Atlantic) has shirked its duty.

[Dave]

Ach well those that are fecked are fecked and those that will survive will survive and those that will prosper will prosper

If anyone wants to blame anyone they are unlikely to blame their own only those in a position which suits their view point.

I guess re-governmentising (or whatever you want to call it, perhaps deprivatising) housing might be a good option, buy out those 'at risk' to save them declaring bankrupcy, that way the banks don't have to go 'cap in hand' and reduce the risk of another 'run'. Short trading has it's stamp of blame but only because of the effects of the pikey mortgage market

p.s. back to that point of notes in circulation - what tender is actually legal in Scotland?

[Lucky Poet]

I wish I knew what the hell you're on about...

Seriously, what is a 'pikey mortgage market''? And did it appear out of thin air, its stealthiness all the better to bugger up the global financial system? Help

PS 'legal tender' is apparently meaningless under Scots law; all banknotes are promissory notes here, nothing more.
Edit: coins are legal tender, it seems. But all paper money is the same in law as an IOU...

[onyirtodd]

I wish I knew what the hell you're on about..

Seriously, what is a 'pikey mortgage market''? And did it appear out of thin air, its stealthiness all the better to bugger up the global financial system? Help

..................

'Pikey' mortgages are mortgages given to people who, by any sane economic test, ought not to have been given them. Often given on a self certification of income basis and sometimes used in conjunction with the local authority/ housing association Right to Buy scheme.

[dave2]

I think he is refering to the giving or mortgages to those unable to pay - i.e. teh changing of mortgages from 3x salary to 5,6, or even 7x annual salary. Thus teh risk of default was higher.

In order to maintain the banknote printing right, the bank HQ would need to stay in Scotland. But TSB had a sinmilar obligation (to a Scottish HQ) when it merged with Lloyds in 1995. Hence Lloyds TSB Scotland plc being a 'separate' company, though wholly owned by Lloyds TSB plc.

Also RBS owns Natwest, but they run separate branch networks, though common IT systems, and work very much as separate companies. This may be the HBOS / Lloyds TSB model.

However if the HBOS share price rises above the bid peice, then I could see the HBOS shareholders rejecting the deal as undervaluing their shares when it comes to the vote at the EGM. HBOS is unusual in having many small shareholders (beneficiaries of Halifax's de-mutualisation in 1997) who make up a larger proportion of share holding than most other large banks. Thus the pension funds 'block' vote will hold less sway that it would at other banks.

[onyirtodd]

I'm not so sure about the small shareholders. Despite Alex salmond's much quoted "spivs and speculators" (and anyone else he can think of blaming) rant, accusations are emerging of fundamental mismanagement at HBOS. No doubt Salmond will seek to find a way of implying all this, if proved, will lie at the Halifax end of the business.

If so, he might actually be correct. Halifax has been the driving force after their takeover of BOS. That's why the name is Halifax Bank of Scotland and not just as a ploy to avoid the acronym being BOSH.