Buses Today

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Buses Today

Postby Mori » Tue May 20, 2008 4:36 pm

Just like the Subway today thread, thought this would be a relevent thread for all the up to date happenings in the Public transport bus network and all its goings on in and around the city. :D

Evening Times

Starting off with the Bus fare rises.

Fury over bus fare rises

Image

GLASGOW'S main bus operator, First, has increased fares for the second time in less than a year. Some fares - such as an unaccompanied child's all-day ticket - have gone up 25%.
Other tickets, such as a single fare from Scotstoun or Battlefield into the city centre, are up 8%.
Weekly and four-weekly passes have soared by nearly 10% in some cases.
The price of a "value" two-journey or return ticket, valid after 9am, has risen from £2.50 to £2.85, up 14%.
This means that, since August 1 last year, the price of the two-journey ticket has increased 42.5% - from £2 to £2.85.

First Group Fares Revision
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Re: Buses Today

Postby Dugald » Tue May 20, 2008 7:35 pm

Mori, I heard just recently that senior citizens can now travel in Scotland, by bus or rail, at no cost. If this is true, I wonder how the city of Glasgow for example, can afford it. It's of little concern i should think, to transit engineers when they read "Fury over bus fare rise" , when on the one hand improved transit facilities are made available to one group of citizens, while another group have to foot the bill for it. It's difficult for me to gauge these fare increases, but looking at just the percent rate increases, the fare increases don't appear to be much out of line with the petrol price increases.
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Re: Buses Today

Postby dave2 » Tue May 20, 2008 9:36 pm

IIRC Public Transport buys fuel at a lower duty rate anyway and First Group have I'd imagine the second biggest buying power in the UK, after the MoD.

Senior citizens do have the right to free bus travel in Scotland, though not free rail travel yet (though some are campaigning for it). This had lead to an increase in bus use in some areas, especially as the pass also allows some travel on Citylink coaches for free.

As you point out, this means each fare paying passenger is now supporting the pensioners - both through general taxation & local taxation which provide the public transport subsidy, and also directly through farebox as the operators try to bridge the gap between the subsidy and operating costs.
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Re: Buses Today

Postby Dexter St. Clair » Tue May 20, 2008 11:37 pm

EDINBURGH: Earlier this year, Lothian Buses was awarded the title of UK Bus Operator of the Year, and it continues to offer one of the best deals in the country.

The public firm, whose major shareholder is the City of Edinburgh Council, will take an adult any distance through the city for just £1.10 for single fare, while a child tickets costs 60p.

An adult day-ticket costs £2.50 - compared to £3.20 in Glasgow.

However, all-week fares are similar to Glasgow. A one-week adult pass throughout the city costs £13 in the capital compared to £12.50 in Glasgow. A four-week pass costs £37 in Edinburgh, but £40 in Glasgow. An annual ticket costs £444 in Edinburgh and £500 in Glasgow.


We're still subsidising the bus war in Edinburgh.

and thank you George

Posted by: geomcbreen, Balornock, Glasgow on 12:06pm Tue 20 May 08
Complain all you want. But considering the fact that Brian Souter donated £500,000 to the SNP last year in advance of the election, don't expect the owners of Scotland's major public transport operators like First and Stagecoach to be given a particularly hard time by the Scottish Government about how their customers are treated. That sort of money buys a lot of favours.
Complain all you want. But considering the fact that Brian Souter donated £500,000 to the SNP last year in advance of the election, don't expect the owners of Scotland's major public transport operators like First and Stagecoach to be given a particularly hard time by the Scottish Government about how their customers are treated. That sort of money buys a lot of favours.
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Re: Buses Today

Postby Dugald » Tue May 20, 2008 11:51 pm

dave2 wrote:IIRC Public Transport buys fuel at a lower duty rate anyway and First Group have I'd imagine the second biggest buying power in the UK, after the MoD.
As you point out, this means each fare paying passenger is now supporting the pensioners - both through general taxation & local taxation which provide the public transport subsidy, and also directly through farebox as the operators try to bridge the gap between the subsidy and operating costs.


Thank you for the interesting information Dave. It may well be that the IIRC Public Transport buys fuel at a lower duty rate, but I doubt very much that this duty rate varies inversely as the fuel costs; consequently, this duty is still going to rise, and the bus-fare increases are not greatly out of step with the percentage rate increase in the cost of fuel. I don't know what the solution to this problem is. I know that on a number of occasions, the Toronto Transit Commission have been asked to provide free normal-hours-onlytransportation for seniors, and have offered to do so, but only if the city would underwrite the additional costs to the TTC. The city has always turned down this condition, hence the seniors in Toronto don't enjoy free bus travel such as is available to seniors in Glasgow.
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Re: Buses Today

Postby dave2 » Wed May 21, 2008 12:03 am

Personally I think it ridiculous that it should be free. But that's my opinion......discounted maybe. But in order to have a discount there must be a premium fare or subsidy from elsewhere.
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Re: Buses Today

Postby Lucky Poet » Wed May 21, 2008 1:06 am

Dexter St. Clair wrote:
EDINBURGH: Earlier this year, Lothian Buses was awarded the title of UK Bus Operator of the Year, and it continues to offer one of the best deals in the country.

The public firm, whose major shareholder is the City of Edinburgh Council, will take an adult any distance through the city for just £1.10 for single fare, while a child tickets costs 60p.

An adult day-ticket costs £2.50 - compared to £3.20 in Glasgow.

However, all-week fares are similar to Glasgow. A one-week adult pass throughout the city costs £13 in the capital compared to £12.50 in Glasgow. A four-week pass costs £37 in Edinburgh, but £40 in Glasgow. An annual ticket costs £444 in Edinburgh and £500 in Glasgow.


We're still subsidising the bus war in Edinburgh.

It's very unfortunate that Glasgow didn't manage to hang on to a municipal bus operator, but that's hardly Edinburgh's fault. There is no bus war within Edinburgh any more - Lothian Buses won. And they're good, which is why. In an uneasy truce, WorstBus have monopoly control over many of the routes into our luvvly capital, though. WorstBus are shite: I'm in West Lothian, and their 'service' to here from Edinburgh even got a mention in Private Eye, such is its awfulness. They screw Glaswegians for every penny because they can.
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Re: Buses Today

Postby allyharp » Wed May 21, 2008 8:48 am

Another price rise! Let's all just drive the car instead. :roll:
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Re: Buses Today

Postby onyirtodd » Wed May 21, 2008 8:55 am

allyharp wrote:Another price rise! Let's all just drive the car instead. :roll:



It is getting tempting, not.

I went out yesterday with 3 x £1 coins for my all day ticket in my pocket. Luckily the driver took pity on me and sold me the ticket for £3.

Parking from 10.30 - 3.30 near a seminar, off Ingram Street, would have cost £10(?)

No contest.
238 to 127. All in all a good afternoon's work
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Re: Buses Today

Postby lynnski » Fri May 23, 2008 7:04 pm

But Onny, don't you have your free travel pass yet??

::): ::):
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Re: Buses Today

Postby Roxburgh » Fri May 23, 2008 7:16 pm

There was a letter in the Herlad today comparing the cost of buses in Glasgow with those in Edinburgh. I don't think I have ever used a bus in Edinburgh but would be interested if the disparity is really that great and, if so, why.
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Re: Buses Today

Postby br-cmr » Fri May 23, 2008 8:34 pm

dave2 wrote:Senior citizens do have the right to free bus travel in Scotland, though not free rail travel yet


... and if they live on an island, they can get free ferry travel between that island (only) and the mainland.

Since this was introduced, numbers on the Brodick-Ardrossan ferry have increased greatly. Apparently mostly due to Arran pensioners taking the boat across to do their weekly shopping at Asda at Ardrossan harbour...

Bruce.
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Re: Buses Today

Postby invy » Fri May 23, 2008 9:27 pm

dave2 wrote:Personally I think it ridiculous that it should be free. But that's my opinion......discounted maybe. But in order to have a discount there must be a premium fare or subsidy from elsewhere.


Dear Doctor Dave, I suffer from a condition known as chronic patellar displacement. For long periods of time I can't even get around my home never mind the transport system in Glasgow. Hence I am current;y living on benefits because I lost a decent job because of said condition (and because some unwitting person 'clipped' my heel in a bar when I was treating some temp staff to a few drinks as a thank you).

Overnight I went from "normal, earning a wage" to being unable to walk at all and that happens on a regular basis, last time being september last year. I am still paying off 'the usual bills' but for the fact that the bills carried on, the income didn't.

I assume that you've never (hopefully) experienced that?

So, the free bus pass thingy... I can get on a bus for nothing - yay me, good for my confidence at getting back into 'real' life and work but by god, the amount of people who get on a bus, stand at the front, and don't give a flying **** about anyone else is staggering. And not in a good way.

Would you prefer that I just stay at home out of sight and out mind (and first bus drivers?)
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Re: Buses Today

Postby busdriver » Sat May 24, 2008 1:53 am

dave2 wrote:Personally I think it ridiculous that it should be free. But that's my opinion......discounted maybe. But in order to have a discount there must be a premium fare or subsidy from elsewhere.


To say these concessions are free is not actually accurate .... yes they are "free" at point of delivery [On the bus] but in fact every time a concession fare is used it costs the the taxpayer something around the equivelent of 70% of the average fare for a single journey which is recovered by the bus company in the form of a subsidy from government funds ie taxpayer. The remainder is made up from paying passengers.
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Re: Buses Today

Postby Flyingscot » Sat May 24, 2008 2:48 pm

Roxburgh wrote:There was a letter in the Herlad today comparing the cost of buses in Glasgow with those in Edinburgh. I don't think I have ever used a bus in Edinburgh but would be interested if the disparity is really that great and, if so, why.


The disparity is there, and exists because Lothian are a municipal company. They are structured like a private company, with their shares owned entirely by Lothian Councils, in the main Edinburgh City. The councils expect the company to be profit making, but except a low dividend each year, far less than say shareholders like First, Arriva or Stagecoach would ever except. As such the majority of the profit is invested in keeping fares low and in fleet and technology improvements like RFID chip cards for multi-tickets. The fact they are closely associated with the council means infrastructure improvements and road network improvements are more forthcoming, hence the wide 'Greenway' network of dedicated lanes, something Glasgow has nothing of.

The fleet is also far better kept and far younger despite operating into the council estates and rougher areas of Edinburgh. They spend far more in the specification of vehicles (for example they have train layouts of 4 seats around a table), good flooring, monitors and CCTV cameras which means people treat them better.They also close the upper decks off at night with a lockable door.

They also run a night network 24/7 something 'unprofitable' in Glasgow. Is that the difference between Lothian's definition of profitable, and First bus'?
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