Driving in the Dear Green Place.

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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby BTJustice » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:25 pm

Why do they keep spending all this money on high teck advertising campains when they could be spending the cash making the driving test better and turning out better drivers to start with?

If they were to introduce some sort of probation period then re-tests for everybody at 10 year intervals the driving standards would start to improve and the deaths would go down.

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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby fourbytwo » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:00 pm

It may seem irrelevent but when I was learning to drive on the Glasgow roads, I had a scooter and a motorbike, and I learned bloody quickly, to spot holes and faults on the road...and I think it made me a better driver.
I don't suppose for one second that everyone should first of all learn on 2 wheels, as the roads now are so 'bad', the injuries and deaths would be horrendous.
What I am saying however, is this, as much as the roads in and around Glasgow are a disgrace and the money the Council 'fiddles' from us in many 'local taxes', should be used to vastly improve our roads......I have become more diligent about what I drive over, and have to become more attentive about approaching road hazards, simply because I expect the road to be in a terrible state of repair....to avoid those costly sump and bodywork repairs. :roll: :roll:
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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby Its_a_gamp » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:56 pm

BTJustice wrote:Why do they keep spending all this money on high teck advertising campains when they could be spending the cash making the driving test better and turning out better drivers to start with?

If they were to introduce some sort of probation period then re-tests for everybody at 10 year intervals the driving standards would start to improve and the deaths would go down.

Dave


Agree with you there. But will add that they should also put a restriction on the engine size, the same as they do for motorcycles, for new drivers. A local driving school now teaches in a 1.8 focus. Unbelievable!
Due to cutbacks, the light at the end of the tunnel is off until further notice!
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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby alzaman » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:12 pm

BTJustice wrote:Why do they keep spending all this money on high teck advertising campains when they could be spending the cash making the driving test better and turning out better drivers to start with?

If they were to introduce some sort of probation period then re-tests for everybody at 10 year intervals the driving standards would start to improve and the deaths would go down.

Dave


Totally Agree.

It'll be a lot better than the current "licence for life" way of things, as most people lapse into bad and dangerous habits due the fact they know they won't need to sit another test, and become extremely complacent in their driving skills, or lack of them as the case usually is.

In some European countries, AFAIK, and USA, the license is only valid for a set number of years, in order to keep people fresh and more alert and possibly keep track of medical problems. Something like the standards required for LGV/HGV Licence Holders, like myself, because roads change, signs change and people change!

It's a bit like a doctor leaving medical school with their degree, and trying to cure peoples illnesses with the knowledge they acquired XX years ago, rather than keeping themselves current and up to date with the latest developments.

In Germany, for example, where i was born, and used to partly live, you sit a theory test, then after a certificate from the driving school to confirm your standard of driving, you then progress to the practical test. Then, after that you need to send all that paperwork, then add to it an opticians certificate and a first aid certificate.
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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby Mori » Tue Sep 02, 2008 10:06 am

E Times

Fall in car sales leads to bumper time for garages

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Sales of new cars in Scotland dropped 21% in July - but one businessman believes the credit crunch could be a shot in the arm for the traditional garage.
Official figures show the total sales for new vehicles in July was 10,705 and that is not good news for showrooms, which began selling the new 58 plates yesterday.
But Willie McLernon, a protege of Kwik Fit king Sir Tom Farmer, thinks the sales drop can only be positive for independent mechanics.
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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby Mori » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:01 pm

ITEM 3

4th February 2009

YOUNG DRIVERS (17 TO 25)

Purpose of Report:
The purpose of this report is to advise Committee on current issues in relation to Young
Drivers.
Recommendation:
(i) I recommend, therefore, that Committee considers the contents of this report; and
(ii) refers this matter to the Road Safety Sub-Group for further consideration.
At their inaugural meeting the Road Safety Sub-Group raised the issue of young drivers and
the dangers of them using high performance cars. It was agreed that this would be
investigated further by Strathclyde Police and LES Traffic Officers. Reference is made to a
survey of 1000 people (reported in the Herald on 27 October 2008) by the breakdown service
'Autonational Rescue' which found that 49% of all drivers and 52% of women drivers said that
young drivers (those under 21) should be refused insurance cover on sports and high
powered vehicles. Further investigation did not reveal anything official on the foregoing
survey from either the Government or any road safety body such as Road Safety Scotland or
the Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents (RoSPA).
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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby BrigitDoon » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:43 pm

Mori wrote:49% of all drivers and 52% of women drivers said that
young drivers (those under 21) should be refused insurance cover on sports and high
powered vehicles.

Christiano Ronaldo recently crashed his Ferrari in Manchester. He is in his early twenties.

The likes of Lewis Hamilton, Sebastien Vettel and Fernando Alonso have been trained to use these machine from a young age. They conduct their business under supervision on purpose built motor-racing circuits with the best medical facilities available should things go awry.

Powerful machines are not for petulant football players. Lee Hughes (West Brom and Coventry) served three years for causing death by dangerous driving. His was a top-of-the-range Mercedes SL.

There is a cult following of the Subaru Impreza here in EK, and we have plenty of boy racers who tear about the place in machines that they most certainly don't know how to handle if they get into trouble.

There should certainly be restrictions on the under-21's (I remember how dangerous my younger brother used to be) and also restrictions for the 21-25 age group. I had a number of powerful machines and could afford the insurance at that age because I was a well-paid computer programmer at the time. With hindsight, it's a wonder I'm still alive. If it weren't for my razor sharp reactions at the time, this post would be deilvered via séance. Many of my contemporaries put theirs through walls, hedges and so forth. We lost a few along the way.

There were Sierra XR4is, large engined Capris, and cheap, undesirable, thirsty executive saloons to play with. Older BMW 528is were easily affordable to anyone with an engineering employment and my Commodore GS/E was nothing more than a "Touring Car" tamed for road use. I use the term "tamed" advisedly.

Shortly before I left Somerset, two of my young friends were racing each other to Cheddar as one of my contemporaries was coming back with his fish and chips. They met 'round a corner and the result was carnage. My contemporary was rushed to hospital where he died a few hours later. The driver who was in collision with him suffered injuries that immobilised him for two months. His passenger was walking with a stick after his pelvis had knitted back together. The other driver was a gibbering wreck for two months and couldn't string a sentence together in all that time.

We packed the church to overflowing for the funeral and the whole community was in shock for months.

For the avoidance of such grief, I think we could afford to have some legislation and then we can ensure that our young drivers become older drivers.

Reenie xx
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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby davadvice » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:43 pm

these youngsters are now all using small cars that can be easly modified to churn out 100-150 bhp without the need for a large engine and the need to declare the performace to the insurance company.

The issue is not with the power of the car, it's the attitude of the person driving said vehicle. I passed my test a 17 got my first car 1.6 vx cavalier at 19 and 6 months later got a 2.0 Cavalier i did write of the 2.0, however i would have still done the same thing in the 1.6 and it would have been worse as the 2.0 was safer and more modern than the 1.6. I have not had an accedents since (touch wood) was a good learning curve and i know i was lucky that no one died. saying that i did race my mate months later from the art galery to byres road at speeds I would not like to state on a public forum. i still like the thrill of driving fast and do go out and drive fast at times, however i do take less risks and am more calculated about where i will drive fast. Age is a great thing to calm people down so i would agree that restrictions should be applied however it will take something exeptional to prevent the kids from circumventing them.

The states of the roads are a discrace. They installed 3 speed bumps on Scaythorn (not sure of spelling) at a cost above 6K and failed to repair the pot holes at the tobies prior to one of the speed bumps, Temple road has speed bumps that i totaly ignore as it is better to run over them at 30 then slow down and take the full impact. Cleavden road out side the school is a discarce i pull in to the parking bays (when Empty) to avoid and the people behind think i'm parking when im trying to avoid wrecking my car the junction at highburgh road and Great Western driving from Hyndland to cleavden is dangerious if you get a clean run through the fiter at 30 the car will bounce all over the place.

I know it's winter and the road take a dooing but Glasgow roads are a total mess, WTF am i paying road/Council Tax for ?

Rant over
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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby Mori » Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:31 pm

eveningtimes

Wheels in motion for free driving lessons scheme
THOUSANDS of teenagers could be offered 30 free driving lessons each as part of £1.8million bid to improve road safety.

More than 2200 pupils in Renfrewshire would have their tuition and test costs covered if a bold new proposal is given the green light.

The plan is being explored in an effort to cut road accidents and boost the skills of learner drivers.

Council officials will seek advice from parents, headteachers, the British School of Motoring, the AA, and Strathclyde Police over the next five months, as part of a wide-ranging consultation.

Other proposals include restricting the free lesson offer to pupils from deprived communities.



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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby Dugald » Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:15 pm

A very interesting post Mori. Based on the information included in the Times article, I see a number of problems involved with the scheme. Well, with organisational problems anyway. The first of course is who pays the £1.8million cost? Will the money come from property school taxes? What will deprived communities be defined as?

What are the pedagogical problems, if there are any. Will instruction be provided during regular classroom hours? What will be thoughts of the teachers' negotiating group if the lessons are given during classroom hours? Will regular teachers be involved in the teaching? Who will oversee the qualification of the instructors?

Despite an apparent array of possible problems, I think the idea is basically a very good one. In Ontario there is a similar scheme, but it is not as widespread as the hopes for this Glasgow one appear to be. Here the students pay for their own instruction, which is on their own time, but do have the use of classrooms for class work. The private instructors look after all the tuition. It is not viewed by the school as an "extracurricular activity".

I haven't heard of any deprived communities obtaining financial help (I don't know how this would go over in Glasgow , but I'd guess it would meet with great resistance... where's the Thatcher poll tax when it's needed!). The insurance companies and government licensing bureaus look upon students who have successfully completed the driver-instruction courses very favourably... cheaper insurance rates; easier to get a licence. As I mentioned, I believe it's a very good idea, and wish them luck.
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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby BrigitDoon » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:19 am

Dugald wrote:The first of course is who pays the £1.8million cost?

I was looking into suicide statistics the other day and I was struck by a government report that put the long term cost to the community of the death of a young person to be of the order of a million pounds. Saving a young life and so saving the heartache to their nearest and dearest is beyond valuation.

It is expected that we drive. I think it reasonable to expect that driving tuition be funded through the education system.

davadvice wrote:...small cars that can be easly modified to churn out 100-150 bhp without the need for a large engine...

I've looked up the spec on a recent Vauxhall Astra: 1.6 litres, 115 bhp, kerb weight 1237kg. Considering the bulk that that motor has to propel, it wouldn't keep up with my old Renault 20. That's not so bad, but with a chipped management unit and no regard to upgrading the brakes and suspension, it's a problem. I believe the Germans have regulations that mean any modified car must be put before the TUV for inspection (roughly equivalent to the MOT) before it's allowed on the public highway.

Power-to-weight ratio is a consideration, and the car's ability to put the power on the ground just as important. Take an '81 Audi 200 Turbo, for example (if there are any left; most ended up wrapped 'round trees, lamp-posts and so forth). It had a front mounted longitudinal 5-cylinder 2144cc motor with a centre of mass ahead of the front (driven) wheels' centre of rotation. The drive train had no provision for a limited slip differential. The kerb weight was about 1200kg and the KKK-turbocharged engine put out 170bhp with 170lb-ft of torque. To put it bluntly, it was dangerous.

I had the lesser 100 model with 136bhp and found myself fighting with the wheel from time to time, when the autobox selected first, or I was pulling out from a junction onto a fast stretch of trunk road. The later Rover 200 Turbo was also as wild. SAAB eventually sorted the problem of FWD torque steer with a traction control system that applied each front brake independently according to need.

The Opel was a different kettle of fish. It was derived from a long-term racing project, both touring car and rallying and a better mannered road car I've yet to have my hands on. I lent it to friends all of whom came back with filthy grins on their face. It went like a Golf GTi with Granada ride-comfort. That's unusual.

All cars have their peculiarities; so do drivers. Very few have the smooth style and reactions of Damon Hill and an FW16 in which to express them.

In the end, we can't rely on motor manufacturers to get it right, nor back street tuners to give up their trade. I've renewed insurance many a time and been asked to declare modifications, but no-one ever checked. It falls to our educators and those who examine the road worthiness of these vehicles to reduce the tragedies that leave their indelible mark on our lives.

Just this weekend, a car travelling into Hamilton on Newhousemill Road flew into the first floor of a house, killing those on board. The occupants of the house escaped unharmed, but the house was so badly damaged that it had to be demolished.
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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby Dugald » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:29 pm

"I was looking into suicide statistics the other day and I was struck by a government report that put the long term cost to the community of the death of a young person to be of the order of a million pounds. Saving a young life and so saving the heartache to their nearest and dearest is beyond valuation."

Fair enough Brigit, but did you read anything which gave some indication of the long term cost to the community of deaths, among people in general, stemming from personal economic problems? I haven't either, but I can imagine money problems do at times, lead to suicides, which in turn create heartaches among the bereaved.

I'm not opposed to teaching young people how to drive, but I am opposed to footing the bill for any such programme that is funded through household school taxes. Half of the municipal tax which I pay goes towards paying for education... by far the most expensive item in my tax bill. I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes for educating the children of the community in which I live. Education for children in public schools is a highly desirable part of civilized societies. Education for people other than children, should be funded in some other way than through school taxes.

The people likely to avail themselves of a programme aimed at teaching safe driving should foot the bill themselves, or through some form of funding other than school taxes. If there are people who cannot afford any such driving lessons, then it's just too bad; they will then have to learn their driving skills from some other source. I don't see this pay-as-you-go as something unreasonable; it happens in many aspects of modern living, and is something with which we all learn to live.
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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby BrigitDoon » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:09 pm

Dugald wrote:Education for people other than children, should be funded in some other way than through school taxes.

Well, I didn't touch on the matter, but I think it is in the wider interest that driving tuition should be funded from the public purse.

Dugald wrote:If there are people who cannot afford any such driving lessons, then it's just too bad; they will then have to learn their driving skills from some other source.

Indeed they do. They learn in their mate's old banger and drive around unlicensed. That means they can't afford insurance which in turn means they can't buy a tax disc.

From thisismoney >>

The Association of British Insurers says that uninsured drivers are ten times more likely to have convictions for drink-driving and are six times more likely to be behind the wheel of an unroadworthy vehicle. It seems that, once outside the law in one area, many of these drivers are willing to flout all rules of the road.
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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby Mori » Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:07 pm

ET

Jammed today . . . jammed tomorrow

Image Image
GLASGOW'S historic Trongate is on the fringes of the City Centre - but it has traffic problems that are most definitely mainstream.
The junction of Glassford Street, Stockwell Street and the pedestrianised section of Argyle Street is one of the city's busiest.
At the daily rush hours the volume of traffic passing through the junction is on a par with the worst bottlenecks in the City Centre.
As with the Union Street and Hope Street corridors we featured last week, the main problem is the volume of traffic.Buses - many of them empty - and private cars hit the junction from three different directions.
Most buses come from Renfield Street and Union Street then turn left and head along Argyle Street, Queen Street, Ingram Street and exit the City Centre via this junction.
Donald McKinven, traffic manager at Glasgow City Council, said: "It is a very heavy bus area and last week in the Evening Times you timed yourself against a bus going down Renfield Street - you would find the same problem here. "Sometimes on a Friday if you walk the bus route along Argyle Street to Queen Street, Ingram Street and then Glassford Street, it's just a snake of buses all going in the same direction.
"The problem is simply sheer numbers of buses and it doesn't make for a pleasant environment."
Mr McKinven said the problem was magnified by the fact that thousands of shoppers arrive at the junction - identified by the council as a traffic hotspot - from a pedestrian precinct.
He said: "When you get to the end of the pedestrian area you come to the boundary of Glassford Street and you are almost into another world.
"It is very busy and if Trongate was to be pedestrianised then that would help the environment.
"But the down side is where do you put the buses?
"You are really talking about putting them up on to Ingram Street, which takes them towards the Merchant City area."Mr McKinven said another problem which brought the eastern end of Argyle Street down was the failure of Selfridges to open a store in Candleriggs.
He said: "It's not one of the most pleasant areas.
"There has been some work done on the north side. It was done in anticipation of Selfridges coming but that's been knocked on the head.
"It may be that if we had money available we could improve the environment but do we go ahead and do it in the hope that a developer comes or do we wait until they come first?
"We would like to do something in partnership with a developer and it would be a great boost for the regeneration of that part of the city."
Mr McKinven said the area was not one the council had looked at in great detail other than to identify it as a site in need of improvements.
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Re: Driving in the Dear Green Place.

Postby busdriver » Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:17 pm

Tens of thousands of photocard licences will expire this year.

This little item caught my eye when going through the pages of the "Evening Times" Website this afternoon, I wonder if any of us with these "Photocard" licences were aware of this when we had to change from old to new. The full story can be found here:-
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/display.var.2489484.0.0.php
Reguloj por la gvidado de sagxuloj kaj blinda obeemo de malsagxuloj.
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