GREEN GLASGOW

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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby crusty_bint » Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:54 pm

Dugald, I can't believe you just said that. I understand what you mean but to analogise with the Poll Tax... any credibility youhad has just evaporated ::): . Anyway, Council Tax is banded dependant on the value of your property so we don't all pay the same.

In regards to garbage collection and disposal, we have to completely overhaul the entire system and recylce everything thats possible. Which is a pain for the household as I hardly have enough space for my traditional bin (i.e. one bin for EVERYTHING), but I'm sure we'd find ways of coping. What MUST be a priority though is the improvement of srvice. You might all think I was just bitching saying about my recycling bins not being emptied (still not btw) but if there isn't any oom in ether of the 2 recylcing bins provided to service 8 households then I can't recycle. My partner could drive to the nearest set of large bins but then that feels like defeating the purpose.

Anyway, I can't be arsed finishing this now so will just say GET MY BINS EMPTIED YA BAS! :twisted:
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby Josef » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:26 pm

Ours have been emptied at the advertised two-week interval.

However, I do note that the blokes collecting the stuff are markedly inefficient compared to the standard bin-emptiers.

The latter send an advance guard round to open the close doors so that the emptiers are in and out in less than a minute; the former arrive with in threesomes with the bins and stand around at the door for five or six minutes trying every key on the ring and scratching their heads (or until someone spots them out the window). They don't use the buzzer, which, whilst it's very considerate of them at 7:30 a.m., is also not conducive to quick collection. I'm at the start of their run. I wonder if Crusty is at the end...
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby crusty_bint » Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:36 pm

Oh you could be right actually Josef, fair point!
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby Dugald » Fri Dec 07, 2007 12:31 pm

crusty_bint wrote:Dugald, I can't believe you just said that. I understand what you mean but to analogise with the Poll Tax... any credibility youhad has just evaporated ::): . Anyway, Council Tax is banded dependant on the value of your property so we don't all pay the same.:


Crusty, I fervently hope the evaporation of my credibility is consistent more with the smile on the funny wee man's face than with the meaning of your words. Anyway, there's no escaping it, I really did analogise my idea of pay-as-you-use municipal services with that of Maggie Thatcher's infamous Poll Tax. Surely we're not to deny ourselves the use of a fairer tax system simply because the same idea was inherent in Thatcher's Poll Tax? No CB, I can't believe you just said that!

Anyway, just ponder the following for a wee minute. House "A" is occupied solely by a widow; house"B", next door, is occupied by 8 people: two parents, two parents-in-law, and 4 children. Is there anything unfair in expecting the municipal services tax for House"B" being proportionally higher than the tax paid by House"A"? No, of course not: garbage is not a function of "house size", but rather, a function of the number of people in the house, so let's have people pay for the garbage they wish to dispose of !
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby Fossil » Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:19 pm

Dugald wrote:
Anyway, just ponder the following for a wee minute. House "A" is occupied solely by a widow; house"B", next door, is occupied by 8 people: two parents, two parents-in-law, and 4 children. Is there anything unfair in expecting the municipal services tax for House"B" being proportionally higher than the tax paid by House"A"? No, of course not: garbage is not a function of "house size", but rather, a function of the number of people in the house, so let's have people pay for the garbage they wish to dispose of !


Quite a few bedrooms in both property’s then
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby onyirtodd » Fri Dec 07, 2007 2:02 pm

Dugald wrote: .....................
Anyway, just ponder the following for a wee minute. House "A" is occupied solely by a widow; house"B", next door, is occupied by 8 people: two parents, two parents-in-law, and 4 children. Is there anything unfair in expecting the municipal services tax for House"B" being proportionally higher than the tax paid by House"A"? No, of course not: garbage is not a function of "house size", but rather, a function of the number of people in the house, so let's have people pay for the garbage they wish to dispose of !


This is a slippery slope.

Is Dugald planning to extend this 'pay per person' system to take account of, say, the number of kids a household has in state education or the number of library books borrowed?
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby Dugald » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:30 pm

"Anyway, just ponder the following for a wee minute. House "A" is occupied solely by a widow; house"B", next door, is occupied by 8 people: two parents, two parents-in-law, and 4 children. Is there anything unfair in expecting the municipal services tax for House"B" being proportionally higher than the tax paid by House"A"? No, of course not: garbage is not a function of "house size", but rather, a function of the number of people in the house, so let's have people pay for the garbage they wish to dispose of !"

In response to the above quotation, Fossil said:

"Quite a few bedrooms in both property's then".

Fossil, I don't quite see what bearing the number of bedrooms in each house to do with the amount of garbage accumulated in the house.

In response to the same quotation, Onyirtodd says:

"This is a slippery slope. Is Dugald planning to extend this 'pay per person' system to take account of, say, the number of kids a household has in state education or the number of library books borrowed?".

No, Dugald is not planning to extend this 'pay per person' system to all of the municipal services; he fully appreciates, for example, the need for state run schools regardless of the number of children in each household.
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby crusty_bint » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:33 pm

I was only kidding Dugald, you're right! ::): Regarding your scenario, it may come as a surprise to you in that I have pondered this before of my own volition. There are circumstances in which a Local Income Tax might be a more reasonable solution, however this sytem is not without its flaws as, for example, a single person who earns more than say a family of 8 would in effect be subsidising this family's tax bill, how is this fair? You can chose where you live but you can't necessarily chose not to be single. The following may sound harsh of me but please don't think I don't have a heart, I spent many years of my adolescance living with my gran, but, in reation to your scenario, if an elderly person chooses to stay in the house they have lived in all their lives for purely sentimental reasons, a house I presume could accomodate an extended family of 8, then more fool them - you can't have your cake and eat it.
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby onyirtodd » Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:25 pm

Dugald wrote:
In response to the same quotation, Onyirtodd says:

"This is a slippery slope. Is Dugald planning to extend this 'pay per person' system to take account of, say, the number of kids a household has in state education or the number of library books borrowed?".

No, Dugald is not planning to extend this 'pay per person' system to all of the municipal services; he fully appreciates, for example, the need for state run schools regardless of the number of children in each household.


Even for people who are blissfully childless and child free?
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby Dexter St. Clair » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:29 pm

House "A" is occupied solely by a widow, a Mrs Thatcher; house"B", next door, is occupied by 8 people: two parents, two parents-in-law, and 4 children .


Is that an Indian family?
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby HollowHorn » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:14 pm

Fukkin' Comanches :twisted:
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby Fossil » Fri Dec 07, 2007 9:47 pm

Image
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby Dugald » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:38 pm

"There are circumstances in which a Local Income Tax might be a more reasonable solution, however this system is not without its flaws as,..."

Crusty, the 'Local Income tax' which you mention could be in a form similar to that mentioned by Bearkit, which he came across in Ireland, whereby every household pays for their own garbage. In fact the city in which I live have been debating over such a system for a couple of years now, and there is a good likelihood it will be adopted in the near future.

I think it would be entirely fair and reasonable for an elderly person to stay in the house they have lived in all their lives if they wish to. All they should be required to do is pay for their own garbage. I don't see anything unreasonable in holding them responsible only for the garbage they produce.
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby Dugald » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:41 pm

Yes, Onyirtodd, even for people who are blissfully childless and child free ! Why not, they share in the benefits of an educated society.
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Re: GREEN GLASGOW

Postby crusty_bint » Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:49 pm

I didn't infer thats a fair situation, but regardless of what charging system they caome up with somone always loses out. The problem with rubbish is that you cannot avoid creating it. Practically everything we do in daily life produces waste. The only effective means charge for trash collection is to enable the recylcing of everything thats recyclable at a local level and then charge a tax/levy for the trash thats left.

In regards to the elderly in over-sized properties, or rather properties which under-occupied, I'm not for a minute suggesting they should be forced to do anything. I can't find the words to explain what I mean so allow me to retract that statement in order not to detract from the subject at hand.
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