Glasgow's Cycling Heritage

[Cyclo2000]

Meant to put this down but forgot!
Obree wasn't that badly treated at all. He was signed to a pro team but he didn't show up for training and they sacked him.
Shortly afterwards, the team went bust.
There was never a vendeta against him - he'd just burned his bridges with the Pro teams through his own (in)actions.

[Dugald]

Interesting reading Cyclo. I think we pretty well agree on most of the points. I don't recall Coppi's comment about the Champagne, but i recall quite clearly Anquetil's comment about the "soda pop".

I still feel O'Bree's treatment by the pros was bush league. I think it was in Norway at some major international event when his machine got vetoed on some technicality and not another rider there, including British riders, would lend him a bike... and most of them had spare bikes with them! I don't deny for one minute that he was a man somewhat out of step with normality, but he was/is a great athlete.

Robert Miller? Shame on him! No, not because of the "two-suitcase" allegation, just because of his anti-Glasgow attitude. If he can't say anything good about his Heimat then he should say nothing.

[Osiris]

I may be courting controversy here but it seems to me that drugs use is never going to be fully eliminated from sport. From that standpoint why not just level the playing field and make it legal?

For sports like cycling you could have a handicap system in place with those testing positive receiving time penalties perhaps.

I agree with Dugald that its hard to watch sport now, where any seemingly superhuman effort, whether obtained through drug use or not, will always have a question mark over it. Just look at whats been said about Lance Armstrong for instance.

J

[Cyclo2000]

Precisely because of my previous comment about the effect of EPO on the body.
The athlete who responds best to the therapy wins, rather than the best athlete. Geddit?
If we were talking about something like amps which have a measurable, constant effect, you could argue yer point. But in the case of EPO, no. It can make a mediocre rider good but a great rider may not get the same boost.

[Blueboy]

Getting back on topic, I'd be interested to find out how some of the Glasgow cycling clubs got their names:

The only one I know is Glenmarnock Wheelers (Glen from Rutherglen and marnock from Dalmarnock - clever, eh?)
What about:

Glasgow Nightingale
Glasgow Ivy
VC (Velo Club) Astar

??

[Dugald]

I may be courting controversy here but it seems to me that drugs use is never going to be fully eliminated from sport. From that standpoint why not just level the playing field and make it legal?

For sports like cycling you could have a handicap system in place with those testing positive receiving time penalties perhaps.

I agree with Dugald that its hard to watch sport now, where any seemingly superhuman effort, whether obtained through drug use or not, will always have a question mark over it. Just look at whats been said about Lance Armstrong for instance.

J

I can't agree with you on this Osiris. Your suggestion of course isn't new, I've heard it before. If drugs were acceptable then sports events would simply become a competition among drug companies: best drugs win races, not the best competitors. The drug companies already have their competition on the stock market, let's leave it there. I think Cyclo expresses this idea very well when he says: " The athlete who responds best to the therapy wins, rather than the best athlete. '

Many aspects of bicyle racing has had handicap systems for years, and I think they served the sport well. Imagine the headaches involved trying to organize a handicap sytem on the basis of testing postive and not testing postive, it would degenerate into the unfair illicit drug use that happens today.

I think Armstrong had his name tarnished long before he ever started racing. One need only go back to the 1980 (?) Los Angeles Olympics when the Yankee cycling team use stored blood to improve their hemoglobin. It wasn't against any rules then, because it wasn't felt that anyone would go to this extent to win, and indeed it wasn't felt that cyclists could have afforded the high financial cost of doing this. Money can afford the drugs and the best means of avoiding detection, so Armstrong, not lacking backers or money, was under a cloud of suspicion even although he may have been absolutely innocent of taking drugs.

An added reason for outlawing the use of drugs is the absence of sound knowledge as to what the long-term effect of these 'modern' drugs might be. Look what happened to our Tommy Simpson, and that wasn't the long-term effect. Oh, then there's Pantani, and he's dead!

No Osiris, I don't think drugs would ever give any sport a level playing field. Let's leave drugs to the druggies!

[Dugald]

Getting back on topic, I'd be interested to find out how some of the Glasgow cycling clubs got their names:
The only one I know is Glenmarnock Wheelers (Glen from Rutherglen and marnock from Dalmarnock - clever, eh?)
What about:
Glasgow Nightingale
Glasgow Ivy
VC (Velo Club) Astar
??

Sorry, I can't help you with any of those Blueboy. I don't know the origin of any of the names of Glasgow clubs, except maybe the "Belle Star R.C.". I heard this club was named after either a cowboy movie by that name, or an actress by that name, not sure which.

Clubs like the St. Chritophers' C.C.; the National Clarion; and the Cyclists' Touring Club, all had branches in Glasgow which were very strong clubs and very much a part of the Glasgow cycling scene. All had names that were used throughout the UK. In fact I think the Clarion and the CTC had more than one branch in Glasgow. Glasgow St. Christophers' Branch was a very strong club, with only one branch in the city; there may well have been only one such branch in Scotland, with many more in England.

[Cyclo2000]

Re the subject of names,
IIRC you have to submit your proposed name to Scottish Cycling, who may or may not authorise it. Hence the preponderance of "Wheelers" and clubs named after towns EG Boondocks CC or Nowheresville wheelers.
Some of the oldest ones are obvious, such as the Royal Albert in Larkhall but others are more obscure. The Nightingale are named after the founders mother, Nightingale being her maiden name.

[Dugald]

A wee story, not about Glasgow, but it is about cycling. Last Wednesday a cyclist riding right in the heart of downtown Toronto stopped on an amber light to make a turn. This annoyed the motorist driving behind him so much that he got out of his car, kicked the cyclist's wheel then thumped the cyclist right on the face and knocked his teeth out onto the pavement. The motorist then threw the bike away and sped off leaving the cyclist trying to get his bike back in order.

Not a funny story, but don't go away, it's not the end of the story. At the same time as the motorist was knocking out the cyclist's teeth, a group of high-school students on a field-trip to take pictures downtown, were recording every action of the motorist on camera, including a picture of a tooth on the pavement!. The school gave the pictures to the police and the whole episode was shown on national TV! The upshot is that the motorist is being charged with assault. He's in deeper trouble even than that, because the motorist was an off-duty policeman! Happy end to story, eh?

[Osiris]

Great story Dugald.

I used to cycle a daily commute into the City of London everyday and the intolerance of motorists always astonished me.

J

[Dugald]

After having read Crusty Bint's June 15th summary of stuff of regarding Glasgow's bid for the Commonwealth Games and subsequent conversations concerning cycling, I was involved in a brief exchange of reminiscences about cycling in Glasgow. One thing I was able to mention which might be of interest to some of you (no, not you, Josef), is that for most of my cycling experience in the 50's in Glasgow I could... ride from the centre of Govan around our Clyde coast through Renfrew, Greenock, Gourock, Largs, West Kilbride, Ardrossan, Saltcoats, Irvine, Kilwinning, Achentiber, Lugton, Barrhead, Crookston, back to the centre of Govan. I can just imagine some of you saying, "Well, big deal, so you could cycle round the coast.", Ah ha, but what I wanted to tell you was that I could do this without having to stop for a single stop sign or traffic light! Is this not incredible when one realises just how many of these traffic controls one would encounter doing that ride same today.

[dave2]

But equally, one imagines that there was less traffic to be controlled, and that therefore a simpler traffic control system of white lines sufficed.

Now stop, give way (or yield as it was in the 50s), traffic light etc help control traffic flows.

[onyirtodd]

...........and in any case cyclists habitually ignore these signs.

[Hervey]

Aye and many motorists habitually ignore cyclists.
Notice I did not infer all motorists as OnyirT did with cyclists, a perception all too common with MANY motorists.

[james73]

As a cyclist, I've noticed a lot of fellow cyclists ignoring traffic lights. I find this odd
and, frankly, stupid. If you're on the roads you obey the lights. Simple.



James H