Cessnock and the surrounding area

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Postby Mori » Thu Sep 07, 2006 10:59 am

The Macfarlan site is to be redeveloped Sunflower, part of the plan is to build that part of the path you have marked in red through the new proposed development.

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Postby McShad » Thu Sep 07, 2006 2:39 pm

Had a look along Brand Street today... between the 2 buildings there is some dead space between the new building to the left and the car park to the right... that part is possible. As for the former MacFarlanes packaging buildings, most of it is empty.
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Postby Sunflower » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:05 pm

From the M74 thread:
crusty_bint wrote:
walbass wrote:Where did the rest of the tenement go?

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They probably were never actually built - tenements that look as though they were built in one big phase have normally, due to the speculative nature of tenement building, been built a couple of closes at a time in succession and sometimes by dfferent developers. Because of the system of party wall [sharing], the first developer would build into the gable of his tenement the apertures and flues and often the niche or press for the fireplaces for the next development. Lloyd Georges budget in the early 1900's (1910 I think) killed of this type of speculative building almost overnight and this is why you see this all over Glasgow and te surrounding tenemental areas.


Here's the Harley St end of Walmer Crescent, looking remarkably similar:

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The council's Conservation Area appraisal says "The western gable on Harley St shows evidence that a similar block was completed here but demolished probably before 1895" - but they also have maps from 1860 and 1995, neither showing the extra bit. Crusty's explanation makes a lot more sense.

Phantom tenement thread anyone?
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Postby McShad » Fri Sep 29, 2006 11:36 pm

After seeing an aerial picture of Ibrox recently, I've noticed that the tenement blocks around Edmiston Drive arent complete anymore. It appears that each part that faced onto Edmiston Drive have been demolished while the rest have stood intact. Not sure why really, not as if the road has changed or anything else been built. Each part is just a small fenced off area of grass full of dog shit
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Postby viceroy » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:29 am

McShad wrote:After seeing an aerial picture of Ibrox recently, I've noticed that the tenement blocks around Edmiston Drive arent complete anymore. It appears that each part that faced onto Edmiston Drive have been demolished while the rest have stood intact. Not sure why really, not as if the road has changed or anything else been built. Each part is just a small fenced off area of grass full of dog shit


Here is a Virtual Mitchell picture of what I think is the northern end of Merrick Gardens [which used to be known as Dunolly Gardens], i.e. the bit that runs from Edmiston Drive to Ibrox Terrace. If I am right then it would be the left hand section which was demolished with the same thing being done at the southern end of Merrick Gardens on the other side of Edmiston Drive.

Likewise, I have often wondered why these sections were pulled down as there is no apparent reason for it. I can only assume that it was for the sake of traffic management at the junction of Edmiston Drive / Copland Rd., although that seems very drastic. Or maybe these 2 sections had deteriorated to the extent that they had to be demolished, but again that seems unlikely since they were substantially built of red sandstone. It is a bit of a mystery but no doubt the answer is lying in the records somewhere.

I wonder what happened to Ernest.
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Postby Sunflower » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:05 am

viceroy wrote:
McShad wrote:After seeing an aerial picture of Ibrox recently, I've noticed that the tenement blocks around Edmiston Drive arent complete anymore. It appears that each part that faced onto Edmiston Drive have been demolished while the rest have stood intact.


Here is a Virtual Mitchell picture of what I think is the northern end of Merrick Gardens [which used to be known as Dunolly Gardens], i.e. the bit that runs from Edmiston Drive to Ibrox Terrace. If I am right then it would be the left hand section which was demolished with the same thing being done at the southern end of Merrick Gardens on the other side of Edmiston Drive.

Likewise, I have often wondered why these sections were pulled down as there is no apparent reason for it. I can only assume that it was for the sake of traffic management at the junction of Edmiston Drive / Copland Rd., although that seems very drastic. Or maybe these 2 sections had deteriorated to the extent that they had to be demolished, but again that seems unlikely since they were substantially built of red sandstone. It is a bit of a mystery but no doubt the answer is lying in the records somewhere.


You reminded of noticing the same thing (while sitting at the traffic lights, mostly) - I went to have another look -

Here are the ends of two tenements on the north side of Edmiston Drive, on the left Copland Road (practically hidden by a giant tree) and on the right Merrick Gardens, beautifully finished off in brick, very Glasgow 8O. the buildings look like the ones in the VM pic, though that row is mysteriously long.
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No signs of leftover fireplaces or cupboards there then...

So on this map (from 1909 or 1913 depending where you read on it)...
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you can just about see Edmiston Drive, Copland Road and Merrick Gardens, and that a whole length of tenement has gone from both sides of Edmiston Drive between the two N/S roads. Presumably to put another carriageway on Edmiston Drive, and presumably when the multistorey blocks etc were built. 1960s? How long does it take a tree to get that big?

Does anyone remember the area before the big flats? Looks as though the original houses there were pretty grand.

Another fascinating thing that you can just about make out is the way the divisions run in the backs of the tenements - the zig-zags and doglegs they put in so there was room for the corner blocks to have some back court space. Are there any still like that?

The map is a section from an old OS map published by Alan Godfrey maps, http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk, they have some in Waterstones sometimes, or you can order online. Less than the price of a paperback and endlessly fascinating.
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Postby McShad » Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:44 am

From the map, it looks like Edmiston drive was extended to PRW. Is this why they knocked them down? If you look at the fenced off area where the buildings stood, you don't get the feeling that they extended out much further than the fence.

Both of the blocks on copland road have trees covering the gable end while the others seem exposed and nicely bricked.

If you look at the gardens at the end, you can see they've spent the time rebuilding the walls with the original top stone but brick underneath. (I might get a picture if I a: remember b: can be bothered
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Postby james73 » Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:57 pm

It seems clear that Edmiston Drive was both widened and extended to Paisley
Road West. Here's an old pic.

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Edit: found this - i shows Edmiston Drive skewing at the corner of Copland Road.

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Postby McShad » Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:43 pm

Cool pictures... I can see my bedroom window in both of them!

In top top one, there is an empty bit of ground where the Galbraiths was built... as seen in the 2nd pic
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Postby viceroy » Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:57 pm

I have been looking at an aerial photograph of south Clydeside taken in 1954 and it shows Edmiston Drive at its current width as it starts off from Paisley Road West, but you can just about see that it narrows considerably when it reaches the tenements at the junction with Copland Road and widens out again beyond this point as it passes Ibrox stadium.

Obviously this would have been a traffic bottleneck which is presumably why the closes in question were demolished, but exactly when this occurred I don't know, although of course it would have been after 1954.

In my earlier post I was a bit cautious as to which part of Merrick Gardens is actually depicted on the postcard from the Virtrual Mitchell website. It is not really all that clear to me whether it shows the northern section of Merrick Gardens where it runs into Edmiston Drive, or the southern section where it runs into Paisley Road West. I took a walk past the PRW end on my way home this evening but it's left me none the wiser. There used to be a bank on that corner but I don't know whether it was part of the tenement when it was built.

Again from the VM website here are a couple of Victorian/Edwardian pictures showing part of the Ibroxholm enclave before the high flats were built. They actually show Ibroxholm Oval - the name still exists. The high flats, along with the low-rise blocks beneath them, were built between 1962 and 1966. This used to be quite a nice scheme but sadly it has deteriorated considerably over the last few years. The 19th century houses along Ibrox Terrace are a remnant of the original Ibroxholm development. You might be interested to know that the late Jimmy Logan lived at no. 1 Ibrox Terrace during the early years of his show business career.
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Postby Sunflower » Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:41 pm

Fantastic to see the map come to life with those pictures james73. And the Virtual Mitchell pics Viceroy - amazing how the area started out so different. I see the stadium dates from 1899, the upmarket houses look like they would have been there before that, maybe before the docks and associated industries started up as well. If the houses survived till the 60s I imagine they were in a terrible state by then.
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Postby McShad » Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:08 pm

The block on the Merrick Gardens side of Copland Road had some nice corner turrets at the Ibrox Terrance end.... I'm assuming the Edmiston Drive had them too.... they can just about be seen on the picture. it also has a kind of ladder design in the sandstone which the opposite block doesnt. They are actually very different when you look closer
Just noticed on the top picture from James, the copland road block doesnt look in a great shape and infact looks derelict
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Postby viceroy » Fri Oct 06, 2006 7:40 pm

The Ibroxholm villas were built around the middle of the 19th century and the area would still have been quite rural then. But industrialisation and urbanisation were already poised to sweep over the whole district and would change its character completely within the next couple of decades.

I don't know what state the villas were in when they were eventually pulled down. But unlike today when similar properties are highly sought after, large Victorian houses in urban Glasgow tended to be regarded as liabilities in the 1950's and many of them were neglected or sold off cheaply to landlords. So the chances are that they were already on their last legs when the Corporation demolished them. The notion that they might be worth renovating would have been pretty well beyond comprehension in those days.
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Postby Sunflower » Sun Oct 08, 2006 10:28 pm

viceroy wrote:Here is a Virtual Mitchell picture of what I think is the northern end of Merrick Gardens [which used to be known as Dunolly Gardens]


Here's a pic I took yesterday, from the middle of PRW down the length of Merrick Gardens...
Image
I haven't worked out how to get the old and new pics on the same screen, but you can see they're all but identical. A couple of the flats have even still got the original windows. But not all the chimneys. Even though Edmiston Drive is much wider now it's only because of the big trees that you can see where it crosses - in the old picture (1903) the blocks halfway along 'Dunolly Gardens' with the pointy turrets must be the ones taken out to widen Edmistion Drive. As McShad says, you can just about see the matching ones at the Ibrox Terrace end of Merrick Gardens in this pic as well.

Viceroy, was the bank the section half in the newer pic, on the left hand side? It would account for the flashy marble finish on the ground floor...
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Postby viceroy » Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:35 pm

Spot on Sunflower. Trust me not to have noticed that the so-called 'larger image' of the postcard on the VM site has a stupid scrollbar beneath it which allows you to see along Merrick Gardens from one end to the other :oops: :oops: Why they couldn't have put the full size image on in the first place is beyond me.

And yes, the section on the left hand side of your pic is where the bank once was. It's been gone about 15 years I think, perhaps a bit longer.
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