Ravenscraig

[Vladimir]

Im just amazed there were so many steelworks open. Id always thought there were 2 or 3 but soon discovered there were many more. Such a disaster all but 2 closed down

The paper industry in Aberdeen seems to be following a similar path, every few years a mill shuts

[Sir Roger DeLodgerley]

Such a disaster all but 2 closed down

Don't you think you may be overstating the case Vlad? A disaster on an individual level undoubtedly, but the industry survives and produces sufficient steel for its customers with only a fraction of the workforce. In my opinion, Ravenscraig was never going to be a long term proposition because it was created by Harold Wilson's government to supply steel to Linwood and Bathgate, both of which were doomed from the outset. You can't buck the market.

Personally I have sympathy with Alycidon's point of view, there were lots of other works closed down over the years which didn't get the publicity or support in the same way as Ravenscraig workers did. I understand that Glengarnock is still an employment black spot even though the plant there was closed over 20 years ago.

[Vladimir]

A disaster on an individual level undoubtedly

Surely thats what counts

[Alycidon]

One thing that is worth remembering that although we were all lumped together under the "British Steel" banner, there were various divisions. For example Clydesdale was part of the Tubes division, along with Calder (Coatbridge), Imperial (Airdrie) Tollcross and the Rutherglen stockholding site. Ravenscraig, Dalziel and Clydebridge were part of the General Steels Division and might as well have been on a different continent as there was no cross-division co-operation on any matters. It didn't help that all the Tubes division plants originally belonged to Stewarts and Lloyds and the General Steel division plants belonged to their arch enemy Colvilles - old rivalries ran deep untill the end.

[Apollo]

And that some of those divisions were created to feed the motor industry, so when that went...

[Vladimir]

So basically if the plants at Linwood and Bathgate had remained there would be no problem. Government subsidy could have supported these motor industries, backing up the rest.

[Apollo]

No. I was referring to the slightly larger car plants that used to exist down south.

My understanding is that the government stuffed the likes of Ravenscraig up here to supply them.

Then cheap, imported steel made an appearance an upset the apple-cart.

Weren't the likes of Linwood just last-gasp props to give the steel plants here (not counting tubeworks in this) a bit more life (not my own thought, just something I read some time back).

[Vladimir]

Probably they were, but something could have been done to keep them from closing.

[Alycidon]

The whole planning process for British Steel was a shambles, we were building steel plants 40 miles from the coast and miles from the finishing plants and customers.
Take Ravenscraig for example, the coal and iron ore was brought into Scotland at Rothsay Dock and General Terminus Quay where it was unloaded to bunkers then loaded to trains. The trains then battled up the hill to Ravenscraig, going the long way round via Coatbridge because of gradients. At Ravenscraig it was unloaded again into a stockpile before being taken by conveyor to the blast furnaces. Once the steel was rolled into coils it was then put back on another train and taken to Gartcosh where it was finished. Can you see where the costs are being added here?
Meanwhile over in Japan they built their Steelworks right next to the docks, completely integrated, so that the iron ore and other raw materials come off the boat at one end and the finished steel pops out the other end, ready for the customer, or ready for putting back on a boat for export
The Hunterston project was the right idea but decades too late, an integrated steel plant there might have saved some of the industry. Still on the bright side it meant that I got some great photographs of the trains pounding up past Mossend!
The Tubes Division was as bad, we had a reasonably integrated plant at Clysesdale but because of a parochial MP the finishing process was carried out in a factory at the top of a hill in the middle of a residential area in Airdrie . Getting the pipes in and out was a nightmare by both rail and road and thousands were spent soundproofing the plant.
All this despite the plans having already been drawn up for the finishing process to be built adjacent to the rolling mill in Mossend where the tubes could be rolled into the plant!
It makes me angry the amount of damage caused by political meddling in all of our core industries, most are dead as the result of Government action/inaction and not by more clever foreign competitors

[Sir Roger DeLodgerley]

Absolutely agree Aly but much of this lack of coordination came about through dozens of private business being lumped together into one nationalised morass. You can see the same consquences in the rail network where lots on individual companies were forced together with all sorts of resultant overmanning and duplication.

So basically if the plants at Linwood and Bathgate had remained there would be no problem. Government subsidy could have supported these motor industries, backing up the rest.

Possibly Vlad but unlikely. Both plants were the creation of the Wilson government in the mid 60s with the view of creating jobs in areas of poor employment prospects. Now that might seem a worthwhile project but it overlooked that facts that two brand new plants had to be built at huge expense, populated by workers who had no experience of car building, at sites which were about as far away as possible from both customers and suppliers. It was a classic example of Government mismanagement of the economy and had the money been invested at a site where there was a history of car building (Coventry, Birmingham, Oxford) who knows how the car industry might have developed.

Either way, the writing was on the wall for Ravenscraig I'm afraid.

[MacotheIsles]

On the practical note of looking around the old site I certainly agree there are dangers and I take care never to disturb anything or walk over areas where there is obvously something leaching from the soil. There are also some sheer drops, deep water and obscure manholes. Here's a pdf relating to the clean up, with a few interesting photos.

http://www.grc.cf.ac.uk/lrn/events/lrne ... vensA4.pdf

There's also another Scottish Screen Archive Film clip here; Make Way for Steel (I think this is distinct from The Big Mill)

http://data.scottishscreen.com/film/det ... d=22440001

The clip is short, but it gives a good description of what's in the full film.

[CF]

Noticed your discussion on steel. I worked at Clydebridge and visited most other works during a secondment to Technical Offices in Motherwell.

I have a website that started out as just Clydebridge but now includes other steel works. It's at:

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/clydebridge/

I visited the Dalzell Plate Mill and the Clydebridge heat treatment plant last year and they are very busy. Mainly due to the world demand for steel from growth in China and India.

If anyone has any photos that could be added to the website, please contact me.
Colin Findlay

[Vladimir]

Colin. Great site Ive looked at it quite a few times! Is it possible to visit Dalzell or Clydebridge, just out of interest. Or were you let in because you used to work there

[CF]

The steelworks used to encourage visitors in the 1970s but not now. Health & Safety regulations mean a lengthy indoctrination, and wearing helmet, boots, goggles, ear defenders and a reflective jacket. Its a lot of trouble for a depleted workforce in a reduced works. They don't have time so its not done.
I got in to Clydebridge because I used to work there, and because of the website. It was not easy to get permission to visit Dalzell (even though I had worked there for a time), and it was really only because of the web site that I got in.
I dont know if the larger works at Redcar, Scunthorp and Port Talbot still allow visits.
I took photos to help provide a future historical record, but cant include these on the website as the plant is operating.
A lot of old photos of Scottish steelworks unfortunately vanished into skips during the demolitions of offices in the 80s and 90s. Fortunately I had made copies of any old ones I came across while working at Clydebridge.

[Vladimir]

Pity, I always wanted to see inside a place like that.