One for the railway heads

[MacotheIsles]

314s have been excellent units; agreed, and I suppose they've carved their own little notch in Glasgow Suburban Railway history, although nothing will ever again click with the public like the original-and-best Blue Trains. I was working for a local newspaper in Helensburgh in 78/79 when a pair of 314s showed up in the sidings behind the station well before any had entered service (I think 314 214 was one of them). I tried to get the phoitographers to come out and get some pics with a view to running a story, but they didn't share my enthusiasm. I can't believe their end is nigh - it only seems like yesterday....

There've been a few estoteric suburban electric appearances over the years. I'm sure I remember the old ex-SR PEP running to Helensburgh, having been converted to 25kV ac and wasn't it the 305s that used to come over from Edinburgh on the odd occasion? The Berwick Flyer is still a 322... I think. I also have a dim and distant memory of either a class 310 or 312 showing up at Shields Road, but this might just be senility creeping in.

[tobester]

A wee shot of a 303 at clydebank 1985
http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=23163

and a 320 in 2008
http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete.php?id=18224

just a wee note when you click on the link the web browser may change size its ok not a virus or anything.

[aland]

the 305's were regular visitors to sheilds road as they were maintained there, 5 sets iirc. dont think they ever worked any scheduled services apart from 1 turn the early morning central to north berwick

[MacotheIsles]

Anybody else remember the 318s doing a regular Glasgow Central - Manchester Airport run? As I recall the poor old 303s were banned from working over Beattock and Shap under their ownn power.

Thought this might be of interest - 048 at Tulloch working the 1315 Bridgeton Central - Mallaig service in the winter of 1974 not long after the OHLE was first energised.

[aland]

cant remember 318's on sceduled services, they were tested on the wcml

303's could work over the hills as there was a few sets (unrefurb and still full of blue stuff) based at longsight manchester until the early 90's and springburn still did heavy overhauls on them. they ended up at sheilds for stripping of useful bits before going to MC metals for scrap

[aland]

with regard to 048 that is oned of the sad ones as she aws repainted into original blue and ran a few special trains and was the sheilds road mascot, the reasons behind her scrapping was hard to take at 1st as she was designated by the railway heritage committee for preservation but unfortunately she was left round the back of the depot (where the 2 virgin buffet cars are now) and the local neds and junkies got in and trashed her pretty badly, being un-refurbished everything was original including the insulation. apparently the fitters went to do some work and found the formica panels ripped off the walls and blue asbestos everywhere. the vehicles were sealed and transported to MC metals (by road) within days. the contamination was so bad with the fibers in the seats very little was saveable. so the karma is that if the heroin doesnt kill the junkies the asbestos will

that is why we have a refurb 303 at bo'ness now

[Alycidon]

Cant say I have ever heard of a 310 or 312 making it up to Scotland, but there were a few other strangers in the camp. In 1960 the ScR borroed a few ER units to work driver training workings on the Milngavie branch, WAC Smith has photographs of them at Hyndland and on the branch itself.
305519 did a special "coast to coast" enthusiast working from Glasgow Central on 22nd February 1992
see http://www.sixbellsjunction.co.uk/ for details
and before the 305s were selected a couple of 307s were brought north for consideration. Here is one at Shields Road


It is not true that the 303s were not allowed out on the WCML, six units were used for power consumption trials on Beattock in 1973 (I have seen a photograph on the old main Hidden Glasgow site of units at Lockerbie ) and both 303048 and 303066 are recorded as having worked Crewe - Carlisle relief services in 1984 and 1985. In September 1982 303066 and 303067 made it to London Euston on Hertfordshire Railtours' "Blue Train Railtour"

So I make it that we have had the following units working in Scotland
"Tilbury" units 205,250,258,261 (later class 302)
303 - Original Blue Trains
305 - former LMR Manchester Area units brought north for the North Berwick Service
307 - ER units tried on the North Berwicks and rejectd in favour of the 305s
311 - the 1967 batch of Blue trains with higher horsepower for the Weymss bay Branch
314 - Introduced in 1978 for the Argyle Line
318 - Introduced in 1986 for the Ayr?Ardrossan/Largs services
320 - Introduced in 1986 for the North Bank Services, replacing the unrefurbished 303s
322 - units for the North Berwick services, formerly used on the Standead Express
334 - 2002 replacements for the 303s.

The full story - http://www.jhowie.f9.co.uk/303tributepage1.htm

[gap74]

I see the 314s are said to be replaced by 2010 - surely these have years of use left in them yet? They still seem quiet and comfortable and perfectly serviceable for quieter routes like my local Newton-Central run. Always remember being struck as a kid by just how much smoother the suspension was on these compared to the bumpy old 303s, although it did sometimes make a curious whistling noise!

[MacotheIsles]

aland...

Hadn't heard about 048 being vandalised before. A great shame and what a legacy it would've been to have this machine still running railtours under the wires. I knew all these units were crammed with blue asbestos though and I'd assumed that was the reason for the scrapping. I remember talking a person who'd been involved in the aftermath of a 303 crash in Paisley many years ago and he'd talked about how the entire compartment had been left with a dusting of the stuff.

Alicydon and aland!

Thanks for the info.I'd heard about the ban from somebody usually in the know, but apparently it wasn't so. Incidentally I'm 99% certain about the 4-PEP running trials on the North Bank as part of the type-testing for the ensuing 313/314/315s so that could probably be added to your list (what was it 399 or 319 or some temporarily allocated class number. Interesting pics Alicydon; thank you.

I'm loathe to stick my neck out with another piece of 303 folklore that may turn out to be yet more baloney, but I'm led to believe that the combination of the 303's Gresley Bogies and the ex DC Manchester/Glossop/ Hadfield DC OHLE led to many dewiring incidents when some units first went down to Manchester. I also heard of something similar happening on the newly Mk3a electrified link coming onto the North Bank line at Coatbridge back in the early 80s I think. Again a combination of swaying pantograph and masts spaced too widely I believe.

gap74...

I was surprised to hear about the 314s being replaced too. Maybe they'll end up cascading them again?

[MacotheIsles]

And moving away from emus for a second. I read in the Daily Express today that the 'Strategic Reserve' really did exist and wasn't just a myth. (This was the persistent rumour of 70-odd withdrawn steam engines diverted from the scrapyards and preserved in good condition underground in a secret cavern somewhere, ready to be brought out in the aftermath of a war to get things moving again.) According to the Express today there were actually 120 or so engines located at Box near Bristol, held in reserve, but they were eventually scrapped in 1982.

This is the first time I can remember this actually being confirmed, although I have to say I'm a bit sceptical.

[Alan L]

I see the 314s are said to be replaced by 2010 - surely these have years of use left in them yet? They still seem quiet and comfortable and perfectly serviceable for quieter routes like my local Newton-Central run. Always remember being struck as a kid by just how much smoother the suspension was on these compared to the bumpy old 303s, although it did sometimes make a curious whistling noise!

I use these almost every day, and a few are utterly clapped out. Fairly regularly, the moter seems to cut out under accceleration, resulting in the trains taking an age to pick up speed out of stations.

Hopefully there will be sufficient trains to run more 6 car services on the Catchacrt Circle anyhow. Between 7-9.30am and 4.30-6pm-ish, it's nigh on impossible to get a seast between Central and Mount Florida.

[rotten milk]

re: the AC PEP unit.

from http://www.semgonline.com:
"This unit used the two coaches of former 2PEP unit 2001, which were taken out of passenger use in August 1974. The unit went back from the Southern Region to York on 30 August 1974 and was deleted from SR stock during September 1974. The coaches concerned were 64300 (Silver) and 64301 (Blue). A new centre coach was built at York (LOT 30880) and when finished numbered ADB975431. It differed from the original PEP coaches by only having two doors each side (PEP centre coaches had three), was not fitted with cabs and had provision for overhead 25kv power collection via a pantograph at one end. The two original PEP coaches were renumbered into the Departmental series as 975430 (64300) and 975432 (64301) and the whole unit numbered 920001. The new centre coach was painted blue so the finished unit had two blue vehicles and one silver vehicle.......
Plans to introduce similar units[to the 313s] on the Glasgow Suburban system led to the transfer of the unit from the LTS section to Hyndland Depot on 17 March 1976 for tests in the Glasgow area until returning to Ilford 28 August 1976........
It was running again in the Glasgow area in the autumn of 1977."

'British Electric Trains in Camera' (John Glover/Ian Allan, 1982) has a phot of the unit at Dalreoch, 12/4/76
also
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/photo/scaled/412/

[aland]

aland...

Hadn't heard about 048 being vandalised before. A great shame and what a legacy it would've been to have this machine still running railtours under the wires. I knew all these units were crammed with blue asbestos though and I'd assumed that was the reason for the scrapping. I remember talking a person who'd been involved in the aftermath of a 303 crash in Paisley many years ago and he'd talked about how the entire compartment had been left with a dusting of the stuff.

I'm loathe to stick my neck out with another piece of 303 folklore that may turn out to be yet more baloney, but I'm led to believe that the combination of the 303's Gresley Bogies and the ex DC Manchester/Glossop/ Hadfield DC OHLE led to many dewiring incidents when some units first went down to Manchester. I also heard of something similar happening on the newly Mk3a electrified link coming onto the North Bank line at Coatbridge back in the early 80s I think. Again a combination of swaying pantograph and masts spaced too widely I believe.

at the time we all thought it was a shame to scrap 048 but in hindsight it was for the best as the asbestos removal costs and rebuild would have been bad, even if the lottery had helped you would be looking at the same figures for the 303 as has been spent on the 126 at Bo'ness. to remove the asbestos you were looking at roughly 40k plus rebuild and labour. we have the refurb set that is a runner but could use a repaint and the 2 coaches of the 311 are slowly rotting away at summerlee

the accident was where a 6 car 126 ran a red signal into a 303, funnily enough 51017 and 59404 (preserved) were part of that train, fortunately they werent damaged although 59404 (centre car of the 126) was involved in a major side swipe that meant the corridor side was replaced, we found that during asbestos stripping as that side was clean and had glass fibre in it

as for the 303's being bouncy and causing wired to be tangled, hmmm the 304's and 305's that ran about manchester were all built on gresley bogies as were all 1st gen emu's so think that is pie and bovril. interesting point quite a few of the ex 303 bogies are now used under pullman coaches in the orient express as the pullmans ran on gresleys but with oil axleboxes but the ex emu ones had roller bearings

[MadMac]

The accident was where a 6 car 126 ran a red signal into a 303

Gower Street? Other way around....

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docume ... ds1973.pdf

[trainz]

Anybody else remember the 318s doing a regular Glasgow Central - Manchester Airport run? As I recall the poor old 303s were banned from working over Beattock and Shap under their ownn power.

Thought this might be of interest - 048 at Tulloch working the 1315 Bridgeton Central - Mallaig service in the winter of 1974 not long after the OHLE was first energised.

Hi, I'm new to this site! Been reading the forums recently and been very interested.

I was wondering, I never realised that the 303's ever worked the west highland line? Or that it was ever electrified? Any ideas on where there's more information on this? I've already tried digging around on the internet with no success.