Part time policing?

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Part time policing?

Postby The Egg Man » Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:30 pm

Email from the Area Commander

"With the transition to the new Police Service of Scotland now underway, it is imperative that we critically examine all our processes to ensure that we are making the best use of all our resources. With this in mind, the Chief Constable commissioned a review of the level of public engagement that occurs at police offices and to determine the optimum opening times to the public. This was done to ensure that we provide a service that matches the demand from the public. Recent analysis has shown that there is a decrease in the volume of visitors who actually attend at the public counters at police offices throughout the Strathclyde area.

The review has now been completed and the following changes will take place within my area of responsibility in terms of public counters from November 2012:

Anderston Police Office will open Monday to Friday from 0900-1700 hours

Glasgow West End Police Office will open every day between 0700-2359 hours

Please be reassured that this will not impact on the current operational police deployment within your multi member ward and there will be no reduction whatsoever in the policing resources in your area. Similarly it is not anticipated that there will be any reduction of the establishment of existing police civilian staff who resource the public counters. In actual terms these changes will allow me to deploy more officers into the community as my officers will not be required to staff public counters when civilian staff are on holiday, training, absent etc."
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby Josef » Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:08 pm

The Egg Man wrote: Similarly it is not anticipated that there will be any reduction of the establishment of existing police civilian staff who resource the public counters. In actual terms these changes will allow me to deploy more officers into the community as my officers will not be required to staff public counters when civilian staff are on holiday, training, absent etc."


I'm guessing that civilian staff cost a maximum of half a police officer, and probably closer to a third. If there isn't sufficient cover across the Force to allow for absence, then the schedulers aren't doing their job properly.
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby Morroccomole » Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:14 am

A taste of things to come I'm afraid. The simple fact is Strathclyde Police have made hundreds of civilian staff redundant over the past couple of years, not because there's nothing for them to do but because there's no money to pay them.
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby HelenD » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:42 am

I suppose the next thing we can look forward to is a load of G4S on workfare filling in.

I don't go to the desk at the local nick any more because of the surly boneheaded hominids-as-yet-undescribed-by-science that lurk behind the counter.

:(
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby Morroccomole » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:22 am

HelenD wrote:I suppose the next thing we can look forward to is a load of G4S on workfare filling in.

I don't go to the desk at the local nick any more because of the surly boneheaded hominids-as-yet-undescribed-by-science that lurk behind the counter.

:(


If you think the standard of service provided by Strathclyde Police at the moment is faltering, just wait till the cuts really take effect and G4S and the like get their teeth into Policing in Scotland. It will happen sooner than you think and is already happening in Englandshire. 3 mutants for the price of 1 fully trained, experienced Police Officer! a bean counters heaven.

Looking forward to a 'rocksteady' style approach to Policing in our communites 8O
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby Josef » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:28 am

Morroccomole wrote: 3 mutants for the price of 1 fully trained, experienced Police Officer! a bean counters heaven.


Sir : a Police officer can retire in his forties on two-thirds of a generous salary. A bean-counter's nightmare.
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby RDR » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:53 am

Josef wrote:
Morroccomole wrote: 3 mutants for the price of 1 fully trained, experienced Police Officer! a bean counters heaven.


Sir : a Police officer can retire in his forties on two-thirds of a generous salary. A bean-counter's nightmare.


Do you really want 68 year old police offficers chasing neds then? Or for that matter a 60 year old fireman turning up to rescue you from an RTC?
These guy's pay far more into their pensions than anyone else to take account of the 30 year qualification rule, in recognition of the fact that it might not really be suitable for them to continue into their 60's.
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby Doorstop » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:05 am

Correct .. people don't realise, on the whole, that a fireman or a coppers pension contribution is way above that of your average civil servant.

Somewhere around the 12% mark for a fireman, if memory serves.
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby Josef » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:09 am

RDR wrote:
Josef wrote:
Morroccomole wrote: 3 mutants for the price of 1 fully trained, experienced Police Officer! a bean counters heaven.


Sir : a Police officer can retire in his forties on two-thirds of a generous salary. A bean-counter's nightmare.


Do you really want 68 year old police offficers chasing neds then? Or for that matter a 60 year old fireman turning up to rescue you from an RTC?
These guy's pay far more into their pensions than anyone else to take account of the 30 year qualification rule, in recognition of the fact that it might not really be suitable for them to continue into their 60's.


Fine. I was responding to the 'bean-counter's heaven comment', rather than commenting directly on Police pensions.

And would that we could all be in the same situation.

Last I heard, btw, their contribution was 11% of salary. I don't believe that that's wildly out of proportion to what most people pay. Personally, I'm on 8%, for a final pension that currently equates to about 10% of salary over the same contribution period, but that's my misfortune for having been in a privatised state function.
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby Morroccomole » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:12 am

Josef wrote:
Morroccomole wrote: 3 mutants for the price of 1 fully trained, experienced Police Officer! a bean counters heaven.


Sir : a Police officer can retire in his forties on two-thirds of a generous salary. A bean-counter's nightmare.


Sir : a Police officer currently pays twelve and a quarter percent of his salary into his pension fund, soon to rise to thirteen and a half percent. Not aware of anyone in the Public Sector who contributes more but I know many who contribute a lot, a lot less.
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby Josef » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:23 am

Morroccomole wrote:
Josef wrote:
Morroccomole wrote: 3 mutants for the price of 1 fully trained, experienced Police Officer! a bean counters heaven.


Sir : a Police officer can retire in his forties on two-thirds of a generous salary. A bean-counter's nightmare.


Sir : a Police officer currently pays twelve and a quarter percent of his salary into his pension fund, soon to rise to thirteen and a half percent. Not aware of anyone in the Public Sector who contributes more but I know many who contribute a lot, a lot less.


I don't think, if you're a policeman, that you want to get into this argument, and I don't really either, but...

So, one-eight of salary (tax-deductible, so therefore probably closer to one-sixteenth) for thirty years. Which yields two-thirds for very probably the same length of time.

Shall we compare that to an A&E nurse, on half the salary, who can expect (over the same period) a pension of just over a third of salary collectable only when they get to sixty (i.e. about a quarter of the average police pension, payable for half the time) for a job no less (and probably more) dangerous/stressful?
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby Morroccomole » Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:54 am

Josef wrote:
Morroccomole wrote:
Josef wrote:
Morroccomole wrote: 3 mutants for the price of 1 fully trained, experienced Police Officer! a bean counters heaven.


Sir : a Police officer can retire in his forties on two-thirds of a generous salary. A bean-counter's nightmare.


Sir : a Police officer currently pays twelve and a quarter percent of his salary into his pension fund, soon to rise to thirteen and a half percent. Not aware of anyone in the Public Sector who contributes more but I know many who contribute a lot, a lot less.


I don't think, if you're a policeman, that you want to get into this argument, and I don't really either, but...

So, one-eight of salary (tax-deductible, so therefore probably closer to one-sixteenth) for thirty years. Which yields two-thirds for very probably the same length of time.

Shall we compare that to an A&E nurse, on half the salary, who can expect (over the same period) a pension of just over a third of salary collectable only when they get to sixty (i.e. about a quarter of the average police pension, payable for half the time) for a job no less (and probably more) dangerous/stressful?



Josef, I'm not going to bang on about this, however your comparison is flawed. The average salary for an A&E nurse is around £23000, although I stand to be corrected.:roll: This is well above being half the salary of a Police Officer as mentioned.
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby Josef » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:00 am

Morroccomole wrote:The average salary for an A&E nurse is around £23000, although I stand to be corrected.:roll: This is well above being half the salary of a Police Officer as mentioned.


Point taken, but.. you'd have to be a really incompetent numpty not to make it above Constable level in thirty years.
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby The Egg Man » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:10 am

Josef wrote:
Morroccomole wrote:The average salary for an A&E nurse is around £23000, although I stand to be corrected.:roll: This is well above being half the salary of a Police Officer as mentioned.


Point taken, but.. you'd have to be a really incompetent numpty not to make it above Constable level in thirty years.



.... unless you didn't want to. Many don't.

There's also the issue that the promoted post profile of police forces has changed a lot in recent years. It was something of a pyramid. It's now more of a pin and this process will only get more pronounced post single force restructuring.

As if reducing opportunities for promotion isn't bad enough, many of the opportunities which do arise may well be many miles from where a beat officer has gained his/ her initial experience and 'street-smarts'. That can't be good.
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Re: Part time policing?

Postby Josef » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:13 am

The Egg Man wrote:.... unless you didn't want to. Many don't.

There's also the issue that the promoted post profile of police forces has changed a lot in recent years. It was something of a pyramid. It's now more of a pin and this process will only get more pronounced post single force restructuring.


first point accepted.

I genuinely don't know what your second point means. 'pin''?
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