Hitler's deputy crashed in Scotland

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Postby Chinaski » Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:42 pm

kn0wledge wrote:And I don't expect to come on forums like this and be slapped in the face with politics. Red_Kola and I were expressing our views in a joking manner without intending any offence to anyone.

Evidently you are unable to do so. Please keep your bile away from us, thanks.


What on earth are you talking about? I hardly think it's a joke to state someone deserved to have their teeth kicked in. How can that be construed as anything other than offensive?

I was very reasoned in my response and I don't think there was anything that can be described as 'bile', so you can stop throwing your toys out the pram.
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Postby DMcNay » Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:45 pm

Guys, take it outside. You'll have the Mods on to you if you don't.....
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Postby gap74 » Fri Aug 06, 2004 2:50 pm

Cheers for the map links, the version of IE I have on this PC at work was originally designed for a ZX Spectrum, I fear, and it doesn't seem to like these map websites - just usually end up staring at a blank screen!

Gary
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Postby AMcD » Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:10 pm

Sorry Gary... those links expired very quickly.

Just go to http://getamap.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/

and enter NS558541 in the search box.

:D
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Postby Apollo » Sat Aug 07, 2004 1:20 am

I'll leave the folk that know him to decide if this Anwar character got what he deserved, but I think I'd like to keep well clear of him based on his behaviour.

People like that seem to be unaware that their actions such as the defacing or destruction of monuments (the phrasing could have been a tad more tactful or better explained) are simply no better than the book-burning or history re-writing of the Nazi's they claim to abhor, and they are all the more dangerous for that.

However, back to the point... thanks for the farm grid ref.

PS solve the online mapping problem and spend a tenner on your own digital maps, then you can have them with on your laptop when you're out and don't need to find a WAP :)
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Postby Reverend Scapegoat » Sat Aug 07, 2004 3:28 am

Wasn't there some big hoo-haa about it maybe NOT actually being the real Hess, but an impostor deliberately sent to smokescreen the real one being elsewhere?
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Postby Apollo » Sat Aug 07, 2004 11:54 am

Reverend Scapegoat wrote:Wasn't there some big hoo-haa about it maybe NOT actually being the real Hess, but an impostor deliberately sent to smokescreen the real one being elsewhere?


Good point. I've always thought the Allies behaviour regarding Hess's stay and conditions at Spandau was peculiar to say the least and that there was some other agenda. I've never got round to doing any research on it though, anyone else actually dug around and have any insight to offer?
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Postby red_kola » Sat Aug 07, 2004 12:29 pm

Chinaski wrote:
What on earth are you talking about? I hardly think it's a joke to state someone deserved to have their teeth kicked in. How can that be construed as anything other than offensive?


Take a chill pill.

My comment was not meant to be taken seriously. However, anyone who remembers from Aamar when he was in SWSS (oh the irony :wink: ), will know the character of the man and how deliciously funny it is that he now works in Human Rights.

And remember kids, without Hess' trip and incarceration there would have been no Spandau Ballet ::):
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Postby Apollo » Tue May 10, 2005 11:54 pm

Well. Since no-one else bothered, I'll mention yesterday was the anniversary of this odd event.

Since I haven't made it to the location given aboive, I thought I'd see if it fell within the aerial photo catchment, and it did:

http://www1.getmapping.com/Preview.asp? ... 0&size=500
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Postby highlander » Thu May 12, 2005 7:21 pm

Well I might be able to help you on this one, since I live in Eaglesham.

Today not many people are too sure of the exact spot where the plan crashed. Hess had decided to come down at this spot because he mistook Eaglesham Castle (no longer here) to be another castle he was trying to find! I need to get the history books out on this one!

The post office in Eaglesham has moved. It's not based at the main shops on Glasgow road. At the time Hess crashed I believe the Post Office was on Cheapside Street. It has now been converted into housing. Hess being held at the Post Office is new to me!

The new GSO (Glasgow southern Orbital) now passed very close to the site of the crash, just one field away. Indeed all the maps and photos so far one this post are now out of date.

I'll check my books later tonight and see if I dig anything up.

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Postby Timchilli » Thu May 12, 2005 9:39 pm

There is a series of photos taken of Hoess as a prisoner in Scotland. I remember seeing a few a number of years ago, but none since.

Fascinating events to have happened on home soil.

Incidentally, Anwar sounds like a total shit-eater and I've no sympathy for him whatsoever. Vandalism is vandalism. The last thing we need is to adopt the Austrian attitude of "it never happened" by banning all plaques to historic happenings.

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Postby Apollo » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:25 pm

Going back on-topic :P

I came across someone now living across the pond doing a bit of study on Renfrew, and they came up with this link to a story about Hess, so for your entertainment:-

Http://www.shout.net/~bigred/Hess.htm

Apparently there's another 5 versions floating around, but they didn't post any addresses for them :(
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Postby Apollo » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:50 pm

The Royal Observer Corps has featured elsewhere in the forum, following its Cold War serivce. However, I hadn't noticed this item buried in its history from WWII:
The Royal Observer Corps probably suffered its greatest frustration on May 10th 1941, when Scottish Observers tracked and identified Rudolf Hess during his ill-fated flamboyant attempt to arrange an armistice between Britain and Germany. Derek Wood has recorded that Assistant Observer Group Officer Major Graham Donald had great difficulty in persuading the RAF that the Observers had identified Hess's aircraft as a Messerschmitt 110 night fighter. Dismayed, Donald decided to visit the site of the crashed aircraft, confirmed the aircraft type, and worked out from the fuel tank that it had too little fuel to return to Germany. Learning that the pilot had been captured, Donald faced even greater difficulty when he managed to reach him, even after identifying this 'Hauptmann Alfred Horn' as the Deputy Reichsfuhrer, Rudolf Hess. Officialdom appeared unable (or unwilling) to admit that the wisdom of an ROC officer had landed this 'big fish'.

Hess had been trying to reach the Duke of Hamilton, to relay to him a message for Winston Churchill, but only the persistence of Graham Donald made the meeting occur. In all, it was a day and a half before Churchill had the full facts, and by then Hitler had denied the whole affair, claiming that Hess was insane. There is circumstantial evidence that Hess had earlier tried to abduct the Duke of Windsor from Lisbon in Portugal to Germany, to try to force an armistice. This was at Hitler's orders, only being forestalled by the rapid removal of the Duke and Duchess to the Governorship of the Bahamas. The truth died with Hess at Spandau Prison in Berlin.

In 1976, some long forgotten files revealed a letter dated May 14th 1941 from Graham Donald to Air-Commodore Warrington-Morris, Commandant of the Royal Observer Corps from 1936 to 1942. The Air-Commodore, in his reply of May 18th 1942, wrote "I consider that you showed great initiative in your actions at the Centre [34 Group, Glasgow] and subsequently. You must indeed be pleased at having been a 'Principal' in such an epoch making event." This seems to have been as far as Warrington-Morris was able to go in recognising the service of his subordinate
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Postby HollowHorn » Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:39 pm

Hess was kept in the Tower of London until being sent to face charges at the Nuremberg War Crimes Trial. He was found guilty of actively supporting preparations for war and in participating in the aggression against Czechoslovakia and Poland.

If the above charge was enough to solicit a full "Life Sentence" Then shirly half of today’s world leaders should be residing in Spandau.

Rudolf Hess was sentenced to life and was still in Spandau Prison when he was found dead on 17th August, 1987. Officially he committed suicide but grave doubts have been raised about the possibility of a 93 man in his state of health being able to hang himself with an electrical extension cord without help from someone else.

Why though, after all those years, would sudden death be necessary? Was he up for parole and therefore available to the worlds press? If the purpose of a prison sentence is to remove a person from society in the hope that a process of rehabilitation has time to take place, was Hess then not badly let down by the system that incarcerated him?
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Postby salty dog » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:09 pm

I think the "brave and heroic " bit stems from the fact Hess didnt know how to fly the plane he was in , apparantly he was also unarmed flying a well known enemy plane into the UK.
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