Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby mination » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:12 pm

I seriously doubt that you could call it Sectarian now. Nobody cares about religion, tribalism, pissed etc.
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby Riotgrrl » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:37 am

Bridie wrote:what are the statistics on religious sectarian violence?



Not recorded for many years, as it was just classed as violence. However recently (in the last few years) they brought in religious bigotry as an aggravating factor, so that this kind of thing could be separately identified.

Having seen the figures from an internal COPFS survey, you will be suprised (well I was) to know that religious aggravation is very rare in violent crimes. Most are not religiously aggravated.

Most of the crimes where a religious aggravation was recorded were BOPS. In short, it was pissed people singing 'The Sash' or IRA songs on the streets, rather than acts of violence.

I think everyone expected to find that sectarianism was a major part of violent incidents, and were surpised to find that it wasn't in particular.

I suppose those people who go to the football games are pretty well policed. And those who watch the games in pubs watch them with like-minded fans.

However any big football game, be it Old Firm or Scotland international, leads to an increase in domestic abuse. I suppose any kind of communal thing where men get more pissed than usual leads to an increase in domestic abuse.
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby Riotgrrl » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:38 am

banjo wrote:most sectarian violence in glasgow gets reported as a football related incident.


It does? I was unaware that there was such a classification available to the Police & Crown.
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby Riotgrrl » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:41 am

http://www.copfs.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/9/0000077.pdf

Here is a link to the research I was talking about. I don't think it's been repeated since.

I was very surprised at how relatively unimportant sectarianism was compared to overall levels of violence in Glasgow.

The Violence Reduction Unit suggest that territorialism is a far more significant factor.
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby The Egg Man » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:51 am

It'd be much more interesting to see those figures over 6 years instead of 6 months. A report which starts 'there have been 404 charges and 222 have yet to be completed' doesn't tell us very much at all.

The figures

Argyll & Clyde 5 5%
Ayrshire 1 0.9%
Central 2 1.8%
Dumfries & Galloway 2 1.8%
Fife 1 0.9%
Glasgow 58 54%
Lanarkshire 24 22%
Lothian & Borders 11 10%
Grampian 2 1.8%
Tayside 2 1.8%

suggest that, despite protestations elsewhere on this thread, Glasgow does have a bit more of a problem than elsewhere in Scotland.
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby Riotgrrl » Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:18 pm

Egg Man, so far as I know (!) they only ever did this six month snapshot and no longer-term analysis was ever done.

I'll try to find out.

http://www.copfs.gov.uk/About/Departmen ... e/Analysus

(more recent stats, but far less detailed).

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc ... 041794.pdf
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby cell » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:03 pm

Riotgrrl wrote:http://www.copfs.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/9/0000077.pdf

Here is a link to the research I was talking about. I don't think it's been repeated since.

I was very surprised at how relatively unimportant sectarianism was compared to overall levels of violence in Glasgow.

The Violence Reduction Unit suggest that territorialism is a far more significant factor.


Rocket science this crime analysis game! How do you define sectarianism and are the cops on the street given guidance when it comes to data entry?

What do you think contributes most to territorialism? I would hazard a guess that segregated religious schooling comes out pretty high, as soon as you split kids up and introduce an artificial difference you are just stacking up problems for the future. Rather then continue to waste money on data analysis and categorisation, I would like to see the police call on the politicians to put an end to this nonsense.

Ridiculously cheap drink has to be another major contributor to violence, the police were happy to support minimum pricing so why don't they lobby for an end to tax payer funded brain washing and let kids grow up together questioning their parents and societies inbuilt divisions.
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby Celyn » Mon Sep 27, 2010 10:55 pm

Riotgrrl wrote:
Bridie wrote:...

Most of the crimes where a religious aggravation was recorded were BOPS. ....



Am I the only one stupid enough to take a while to work out that "BOP" might mean "breach of the peace"? I mean, I quickly rejected "merry wee dance" as a meaning, but did have to stop and think. It was quite a strain, the thinking. I try not to do it very much.
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby BrigitDoon » Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:16 am

I wondered what it meant. It didn't occur to me that it might be a TLA. :oops:
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby Boxer6 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 6:26 am

BrigitDoon wrote:I wondered what it meant. It didn't occur to me that it might be a TLA. :oops:


WTF?
::):
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby Bridie » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:33 am

I didn't know what it mean't either and according to celyn's post I'm supposed to have said it ::):
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby BrigitDoon » Tue Sep 28, 2010 8:54 am

Boxer6 wrote:
BrigitDoon wrote:I wondered what it meant. It didn't occur to me that it might be a TLA. :oops:


WTF?
::):


::):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-letter_acronym
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby hungryjoe » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:19 am

cell wrote: I would hazard a guess that segregated religious schooling comes out pretty high, as soon as you split kids up and introduce an artificial difference you are just stacking up problems for the future. Rather then continue to waste money on data analysis and categorisation, I would like to see the police call on the politicians to put an end to this nonsense.

Ridiculously cheap drink has to be another major contributor to violence, the police were happy to support minimum pricing so why don't they lobby for an end to tax payer funded brain washing and let kids grow up together questioning their parents and societies inbuilt divisions.


You're 100% right about segregated schools, I don't know what can be done about it, it's enshrined in law as far as I know.

Cheap drink - there's a lot of pish talked about it. As a former taxi driver, I've seen a lot of violence, and I've observed two trends.
Firstly the Bucky drinking neds who hang about the streets. They get fired up on Buckfast and the more they drink the more hyper they get because of the ridiculous amount of caffeine in it. The net result is you have drunken neds, wee cunts at best, running around out of control with no inhibitions, setting about passers by and often using weapons.
There's a common misconception that Buckfast is cheap. Where I live, a bottle of Bucky costs around 7 pounds 50 from the corner shop. another 2.50 would get a bottle of vodka with twice as much alcohol.

Secondly, most drink fuelled violence on the streets (apart from the Bucky boys) comes after the pubs and nightclubs close and there are lengthy waits for taxis. More taxis aren't the answer - apart from a few hours at the weekend, there are queues of taxis at ranks waiting for precious few hires. The sensible thing is to deregulate pub and nightclub closing times. At present, the drunks who cause violence after the pubs and nightclubs close are not taking advantage of ridiculously cheap drinks - quite the opposite. For the price of 2 pints in the pub, I can sit at home and enjoy a bottle of wine and a couple of cans of beer. After that I go to my bed, I don't run around slashing strangers or kicking someone's cunt in in the taxi queue.

Unfortunately, there's always going to be drink fuelled domestic violence, but this is caused by people who shouldn't drink. Where they drank and how much they paid for it isn't a factor.
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby cell » Tue Sep 28, 2010 2:58 pm

On the whole I would agree with you on pub and club violence, minimum price will not have a direct effect on this. But consider how we got to the position that it is acceptable for folk to get smashed out of their faces and end up dolling out or being on the receiving end of violence. They will have grown up surrounded by cheap drink, they get used to drinking to excess and normalise it, when they do start going to pubs and clubs and start earning some money all they are doing is continuing what started as cheap underage cider binging. I know as a youngster I certainly bought on price, if I could get an extra can or bottle for my £5 I would go for that whether I considered I needed it or not to get steaming. Minimum pricing would not cure all our drinking ills but it would certainly help.

On separate faith schools, unless we challenge our politicians nothing will change, next election when they come looking for your vote, ask them if they support separate faith schools and why, they will all give you some waffle about freedom of choice but you get that by choosing a place of worship or not, not by indoctrinating kids with mumbo jumbo. The real reason politicians support separate faith schools is that they are frightened of religions (one in particular) getting vocal and trying to brow beat their followers into voting to oppose any changes. On the whole the quality papers in Scotland don't seem to support separate faith schools and they like the debate that gets going when readers write in expressing their views. So if you want change write a couple of letters one to your local MSP and one to the paper telling them that in these times of financial crisis any duplication in schools is a waste of resources and you get the side effect of reducing NHS and policing costs as sectarianism is reduced.
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Re: Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

Postby The Egg Man » Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:17 pm

hungryjoe wrote:
cell wrote: I would hazard a guess that segregated religious schooling comes out pretty high, as soon as you split kids up and introduce an artificial difference you are just stacking up problems for the future. Rather then continue to waste money on data analysis and categorisation, I would like to see the police call on the politicians to put an end to this nonsense.

Ridiculously cheap drink has to be another major contributor to violence, the police were happy to support minimum pricing so why don't they lobby for an end to tax payer funded brain washing and let kids grow up together questioning their parents and societies inbuilt divisions.


You're 100% right about segregated schools, I don't know what can be done about it, it's enshrined in law as far as I know.

..............................


As far as I'm aware the need to provide schools for both main denominations is enshrined in law. There's no legal compulsion to send kids to one type of school or another - just so long as the kid goes to a school.
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