Rain, violence and chips: this is Glasgow,

[cell]

Laws can be changed and adapted when required, bad laws or laws that reflect a different time can be repelled, politicians are there to do our biding when we tell them we want changes. They seem to think that the main priority of their job is to cling to power by any means they can.

[Josef]

As far as I'm aware the need to provide schools for both main denominations is enshrined in law. There's no legal compulsion to send kids to one type of school or another - just so long as the kid goes to a school.

Aren't there just schools, and then separate Roman Catholic schools, as per the 1918 Education Act? Whilst accepting that the negligible number of 'other religions' pupils in Scotland (I'm guessing) until recently would have made this a de facto P/C divide.

[Riotgrrl]

I would hazard a guess that segregated religious schooling comes out pretty high, as soon as you split kids up and introduce an artificial difference you are just stacking up problems for the future. Rather then continue to waste money on data analysis and categorisation, I would like to see the police call on the politicians to put an end to this nonsense.

Ridiculously cheap drink has to be another major contributor to violence, the police were happy to support minimum pricing so why don't they lobby for an end to tax payer funded brain washing and let kids grow up together questioning their parents and societies inbuilt divisions.

You're 100% right about segregated schools, I don't know what can be done about it, it's enshrined in law as far as I know.

..............................

As far as I'm aware the need to provide schools for both main denominations is enshrined in law. There's no legal compulsion to send kids to one type of school or another - just so long as the kid goes to a school.

There are no state-funded Protestant schools.

There are non-denominational schools.

There are many RC schools, where teachers who are not of that faith are discriminated against.

There is 1 (I think) Jewish state school.

And I don't think there are any state funded Muslim schools.

Really, it's just Catholic people who have faith schools, and a few Jewish people out in East Renfrewshire.

[gap74]

The booze problem...

Sorry, but minimum pricing is political posturing.

How to explain the cheaper alcohol in other European countries that don't have problems with alcohol related violence and illnesses?

I've been to countries too where alcohol is both heavily taxed and available only from very limited government-run off-licences. People there seemed to like nothing better than getting as wasted as humanly possible at the weekend too.

To price it at a level that would seriously impede the ability of people to buy it, you'd have to look at double or treble the 40-50p a unit they're talking about now, a harsh punishment for those who can drink responsibly.

And make it too expensive, and you'll see a return to bootlegging, moonshine and cross-border booze runs.

The one thing politicians don't seem to want to debate is why people drink like they do? Is it because they themselves have been partly responsible for creating the kind of society which people feel the need to escape from by getting bladdered?

Or is it simply because minimum pricing is relatively quick to implement and they can all crow about how they've done something about it, regardless of whether it worked or not.

Easier to bump up the price of booze than it is to fix a broken society, I guess.

[Josef]

How to explain the cheaper alcohol in other European countries that don't have problems with alcohol related violence and illnesses?

I've been to countries too where alcohol is both heavily taxed and available only from very limited government-run off-licences. People there seemed to like nothing better than getting as wasted as humanly possible at the weekend too.

I distinctly remember reading a book/article years ago that described drinking culture in various parts of the world in terms of what the alcohol was made from. In those terms, the grape belt, the hop belt and the grain belt. To all intents and purposes, although the article didn't say that from what I remember, the point was that drinking culture depends on the native climate.

Doesn't fit all cases, but it was interesting enough for me to think "I'll come back to that...".

Naturally, I've never been able to find the article/book since.

What people do once they are drunk is a different matter, too, dependent on a different although perhaps related set of circumstances.

[Celyn]

I didn't know what it mean't either and according to celyn's post I'm supposed to have said it ::):

Oops! Sorry about that. Looking back, I see that Riotgrrl said it, so I'm not sure what happened there, but I must have mucked up the quote function.

[Josef]

We've all done it.

[The Egg Man]

As far as I'm aware the need to provide schools for both main denominations is enshrined in law. There's no legal compulsion to send kids to one type of school or another - just so long as the kid goes to a school.

Aren't there just schools, and then separate Roman Catholic schools, as per the 1918 Education Act? Whilst accepting that the negligible number of 'other religions' pupils in Scotland (I'm guessing) until recently would have made this a de facto P/C divide.

At the risk of accusations of pedantry I can't see anything that would make a school building a Roman Catholic school. What makes a Roman Catholic school a Roman Catholic schools has to be about the ethos, the pupils, the staff and so on. What was a Roman Catholic school on Friday afternoon could quite easily be a non denominational school on Monday morning.

Quite apart from anything else, Glasgow seems to have far too many schools and school places for the number of kids we have now and are predicted to have in the future. Everyone seems to agree that some schools have to close and pupils and staff relocated to fewer, newer, better buildings - it's just that nobody seems able to agree which schools should close apart from an absolute conviction that it mustn't be their local school.

It'd also free up teachers to help reduce class sizes to those promised by Fiona Hyslop.

[gap74]

Funny you should mention climate in relation to the alcohol thing, Josef. It seems an obvious link on the face of it, but I've come round to thinking in the last few years that it plays a much bigger part in alcohol consumption, exercise levels and mental health than is perhaps generally accepted.

[Josef]

At the risk of accusations of pedantry I can't see anything that would make a school building a Roman Catholic school. What makes a Roman Catholic school a Roman Catholic schools has to be about the ethos, the pupils, the staff and so on. What was a Roman Catholic school on Friday afternoon could quite easily be a non denominational school on Monday morning.

Nothing pedantic about that. However, if the situation is such that there are state schools, and then separate Catholic schools, then one would not be integrating the two sets per se, but abolishing Catholic schools. There is no practical difference, but a huge political one.

Quite apart from anything else, Glasgow seems to have far too many schools and school places for the number of kids we have now and are predicted to have in the future. Everyone seems to agree that some schools have to close and pupils and staff relocated to fewer, newer, better buildings - it's just that nobody seems able to agree which schools should close apart from an absolute conviction that it mustn't be their local school.

It'd also free up teachers to help reduce class sizes to those promised by Fiona Hyslop.

For the reasons stated above, I'm guessing you will not get a Scottish political party coming out in favour of schools integration. Not if they want to win in any of a substantial number of Scottish seats.

Here, for example, is the Cardinal Winning Education Lecture by her boss. I'm not making a party political point here, since I'm (again) guessing that the Labour Party et al would not diverge greatly from the same standpoint.

[Bridie]

I didn't know what it mean't either and according to celyn's post I'm supposed to have said it ::):

Oops! Sorry about that. Looking back, I see that Riotgrrl said it, so I'm not sure what happened there, but I must have mucked up the quote function.

no probs celyn I avoid the muti quote completely like some avoid the youtube posting

[Bridie]

Funny you should mention climate in relation to the alcohol thing, Josef. It seems an obvious link on the face of it, but I've come round to thinking in the last few years that it plays a much bigger part in alcohol consumption, exercise levels and mental health than is perhaps generally accepted.

It's always been accepted by me in fact I don't think enough scientists are being paid squillions to look into it

We wake up in the morning - it's raining, it's a hundred shades of grey of course it has a detrimental effect on your psyche.

[Dexter St. Clair]

There are Catholic schools all over the world. For some reason or other they're not blamed for sectarianism.

As soon as you form a party dedicated to closing Catholic schools please let me know.

And BTW as late as the 80's there was a sign in the office at 129 Bath Street that said Catholic Schools / Protestant Schools. Unfortunately there were no forms in those days where I could shoot my mouth off in an anonymous fashion.

[Lucky Poet]

...I'm guessing you will not get a Scottish political party coming out in favour of schools integration. Not if they want to win in any of a substantial number of Scottish seats.

Which is why democracy will never work.

Funny you should mention climate in relation to the alcohol thing, Josef. It seems an obvious link on the face of it, but I've come round to thinking in the last few years that it plays a much bigger part in alcohol consumption, exercise levels and mental health than is perhaps generally accepted.

I've been happy for some years running with the idea that the further north you get in Europe, the more determined the drinking culture. Something to do with long winter nights and grim weather. I've no actual evidence to back it up, but I've grown rather fond of it.

(Having said that, and it's just anecdotal, but there was a short lived club in early nineteenth-century Edinburgh. One of its founders wrote, “We dined at five and separated at two in the morning before which time the club had risen greatly in our estimation; so we agreed to meet the next day and every successive day for five or six weeks, and during that time our hours of sitting continued the same…. The result was that several of the members were quite deranged.” It's not a new thing, and I'm guessing it's not going to go away soon.)

[hungryjoe]

I would hazard a guess that segregated religious schooling comes out pretty high, as soon as you split kids up and introduce an artificial difference you are just stacking up problems for the future. Rather then continue to waste money on data analysis and categorisation, I would like to see the police call on the politicians to put an end to this nonsense.

Ridiculously cheap drink has to be another major contributor to violence, the police were happy to support minimum pricing so why don't they lobby for an end to tax payer funded brain washing and let kids grow up together questioning their parents and societies inbuilt divisions.

You're 100% right about segregated schools, I don't know what can be done about it, it's enshrined in law as far as I know.

..............................

As far as I'm aware the need to provide schools for both main denominations is enshrined in law. There's no legal compulsion to send kids to one type of school or another - just so long as the kid goes to a school.

From what I was told by an amateur catholic historian - there was a deal done in the early 20th century between the emerging Labour party and the Catholic hierarchy, whereby the Church would deliver Labour voters and the Labour Party would deliver state funded Catholic schools. As I understand it, the right of the Catholic Church to have state funded Catholic schools is, as I said, enshrined in law.
I wish it wasn't. Segregating children breeds bigotry.
Of course, it's a matter of choice, which type of school we send our children to. Personally, I'd rather the choice wasn't needed.