Glasgow's Image - is it really time to be Hidden?

[moonbeam]

Labour have been in power in George Square for 40 years and despite a complete industry being generated round "regeneration" and "poverty" things are not better. Despite £s being thrown into various "projects". Time for a radical rethink?

[Dexter St. Clair]

Labour have been in power in George Square for 40 years and despite a complete industry being generated round "regeneration" and "poverty" things are not better. Despite £s being thrown into various "projects". Time for a radical rethink?

What don't spend any money.

[Guacho]

Labour have been in power in George Square for 40 years and despite a complete industry being generated round "regeneration" and "poverty" things are not better. Despite £s being thrown into various "projects". Time for a radical rethink?

What don't spend any money.

Other solutions are available

[ibtg]

Like spending money wisely......

[Bingo Bango]

Great - credit where credit is due.

Tell that to the 6 companies/teams that devoted resources to a doomed (yet again GCC?) design competition on a short timescale.

The council will find it increasingly difficult to get anyone with an ounce of sense to enter any future competitions as their record is so dismal.

At least five out of the six would have been a waste of time anyway.

All six would have been part of an established process (rightly or wrongly, and there is a whole debate to be had on the merits of an ideas competition anyway) designed to produce the best proposals, on a level playing field, with a set outcome at the end of it. Practices bought in to the process on this basis.

When the outcome is removed arbitrarily then all practices are cheated.

[old jock]

I agree Bingo

Did anybody read the design brief. I had a quick look, it makes it pretty dammed clear that one of the priorities is as an "events" space. I believe it was on the cooncil web buried at Level 42, so they could tell you it was there posted for all to see.

I just wonder if that was a major reason for all the designs being so poor. Council produce a sneaky brief to get what they want through the back door. When it all turns to s**t they turn around say "not us" the companies that came up with all these crap designs are numpties. If it hadn't and God forbid we had one of these designs implemented objective achieved...........gotta admit it's quite a smart strategy.

As far as the "Old Labour" group having been in the Chambers forever. I could not agree more, they don't listen are obviously disconnected from the public but too closely connected with groups they should have at arm's length. The city has had some schemes implemented that are beyond belief............M8 anybody? I haven't seen anything like the sort of carnage done to Edinburgh that was implemented here (and the trams are a glitch, although a fiasco I think Edinburgh will be better for them in time).

The thing is I don't blame Labour it doesn't matter the colour if you don't change them out from time to time and keep them looking over their shoulders then your going to get decisions in the interest of business and councilors.

Can only speak for where I am but IMO the councilor who tries hardest and is most active is from a minority group. Would you knock yer pan in if you knew your job was secure no matter what?

John

[Bingo Bango]

Interesting point Jock about where they hide the requirements for thing in the brief - and an interesting theory on how they might have seen things panning out.

It is almost more important to get the brief correct than the actual design. If you get a really well designed and built building that is there for the wrong purpose, it wont ever have a chance to be as successful as a not-so-well designed building that is there for the right purpose.

Part of the issue with George Square and such like is there is no real cultural engagement in this country on design and specifically architectural design. Our engineering and architecture of the past is lauded and rightly so - but there is frankly derision rightly or wrongly for what we can do today, without the understanding of how different the built environment is and needs to be. I too would like to see the square restored with green space and high quality ground materials only, but do not reject the proposals on offer simply because they are new.

This rejection of the new happens no matter the actual quality of it - there is not the sophistication (and i do not use this term in a pejorative sense) to critique what is offered beyond the subjective and the cliche - dont like the colour, how will this work on a rainy dreich day in glasgow, those fountains will clog up with kebab meat and severed ears (or is this one in the same thing?) after a friday night etc etc ad nauseum.

TL;DR - nice conspiracy theory, brief important, lack of design culture, cliche criticism, kebabs with ear wax on

[rabmania]

Part of the issue with George Square and such like is there is no real cultural engagement in this country on design and specifically architectural design. Our engineering and architecture of the past is lauded and rightly so - but there is frankly derision rightly or wrongly for what we can do today, without the understanding of how different the built environment is and needs to be. I too would like to see the square restored with green space and high quality ground materials only, but do not reject the proposals on offer simply because they are new.

Well said.

[SomeRandomBint]

There were aspects of all the designs which I liked. But none of them really grabbed me as a whole concept.

I find it interesting that the thing I've heard most from people all around Glasgow is how much they miss the green space in the centre of the city. There's little point in allocating all this space for corporate events if the void that it creates is not usable enough to attract people to make George Square an actual destination in their day to day lives.

[Bridie]

There were aspects of all the designs which I liked. But none of them really grabbed me as a whole concept.

I find it interesting that the thing I've heard most from people all around Glasgow is how much they miss the green space in the centre of the city. There's little point in allocating all this space for corporate events if the void that it creates is not usable enough to attract people to make George Square an actual destination in their day to day lives.

It doesn't take that much imagination or common sense, on their part, to realise that in a large city most people want a place of contrast to take a breather and would prefer a green space to sit in.
The designs and their predominant use of grey/mono hard surfaces and plentiful use of water - I still can't get over that one for Glasgow for feck's sake were to say the least not very well thought out.

Was the point ever made by them that grass,shrubs and flowers are too difficult to maintain and cost too much in the long term?

It does seem there's more to this than meets the eye.

[Bingo Bango]

Thing is, everything needs upkeep and maintenance. Public spaces are a responsibility - of the council - to maintain, and the public - to use in a manner befitting of them.

Glasgow though seems to be spectacularly bad at the upkeep side of things. Look at Sauchiehall Street - expensive paving all cracked, missing, poorly replaced, replaced with tarmac. Bollards missing, damaged, extended for some reason then broken, trees dead and not replaced, christmas lights tacked on the trees, bin cancer (my term for planned and unplanned bins of various designs and sizes seemingly self-replicating at an alarming rate throughout planned public spaces, yet never emptied properly) Light poles broken, added in after the fact, advertising hoardings that go up at great expense and disruption (spinning drum one at West Nile Street anyone?) then work for a week and no more.

Look at the lighting of the Clyde bridges. The suspension bridge looked amazing all lit red in the winter some years back. Now there are about 7 bulbs remaining and the thing is ruined. Other bridges no better.

As for the use of these spaces by the public, not much better in my opinion. Litter, graffiti, illegally parked cars, poor general behaviour when in these spaces etc.

I could go on, but you get my point I am sure.

Also - I agree that it would be great to get some more green back in to the square. Going back to my other point about moving beyond cliche criticism of design however, why is the addition of a water feature in Glasgow criticised, but the re-introduction of grass to the square is lauded as the best thing ever? You can't use grass as a surface when it is continually wet, as it turns to mud, and obviously sitting on it when moist is never a good thing. In effect, grass areas can serve to drastically reduce the actual useable space (not that it should solely come down to this factor) of a square for much of the year.

Water features on the other hand - why are these criticised so? Everyone says why in Glasgow? Well, ignoring my point about the failure to upkeep such things, they could be great. Water features are not rain, and are not puddles, just as red tarmac is not some sandstone rock formation.

Other countries get rained on too. They still manage to engage with their urban spaces in a more meaningful manner.

[Bridie]

I'm all for a fountain- like water feature, old style or new but not a huge, boring swimming pool feature as some of the designs seemed to have especially when surrounded by hard landscaping. The designs lacked texture and color.

I also think that abundant water features,in a city,are more suitable to countries with less rainfall than ours.
It might be okay sitting in your garden,on a rare sunny day,listening to the gentle sound of water coming from the statue of the wee boy peeing into your ornamental pond however covering half of the civic square with what would look like a burst water main is something else.

If I was sitting in the rain in George Sq, maybe sheltering under one of those weird steel domes that one of the designs had, I wouldn't want to be looking at more water. It would remind me of going to Helensburgh as a wee lassie and not being allowed to get out the car the whole time because of the rain.

[SomeRandomBint]

That's a good point about the grass. Maybe they should astroturf it?!

We're not really short of green spaces in the city, when you think about it. Friends and family who come to visit us from around the country are astonished that, not 10 minutes walk from our flat in the city we can be on the Kelvin Walkway. And Glasgow Green isn't so far away. I think what I want from George Square is something that is flexible and usable - that takes account of people eating their lunch outside on the 21st July (our schedule sunny day this year, I believe), that provides a focal point for tourists in the city centre, but also allows for us to have decent sized parties in the centre of town on highdays and holidays, and stands up to the pounding that a city centre takes on a Friday/Saturday night. Basically, it's a design project similar to designing kids furniture. You want something aesthetically pleasing, which fits in with its historic surroundings, but is essentially wipe clean.

I'm quite fond of those water features which are sunken jets in a slab, that shoot water up in the air. Partly because I love seeing kids having fun with them, and partly because they can be turned on and off without looking like a massive waste of space.

Imagine the hilarity we could have sitting on a bench watching drunk guys getting caught out by jets of water shooting up at them.

[RDR]

http://www.scottishreview.net/KennethRo ... ic+leader+

Bit more comment in the Scottish Review

[hound dog]

Thing is, everything needs upkeep and maintenance. Public spaces are a responsibility - of the council - to maintain, and the public - to use in a manner befitting of them.

Glasgow though seems to be spectacularly bad at the upkeep side of things. .

You've hit the nail on the head there Bingo - seems to be no shortage of money for capital outlay, but basic maintenance is another matter.

And as regards the problem with water features - Stewart Memorial fountain anyone? Think that was over a million to restore, and the water has hardly been on since the day and hour it was opened to a great fanfare with the Lord Provost etc. For a while now there hasn't even been a drop of water in the basin part, let alone having the fountain working