The Hidden Glasgow Forums

Fat Cat wrote:Haghill is, and always will be, a dump. You could build the best quality housing with all mod cons but if you put the same lobby dossing, giro bashing scum back in what do you get? Graffitti, litter, filty houses and feral children running amok. I hate GCC but by God no wonder they gave up.

Their wages are payed for by the public - they dont have the option to 'give
up.' If any of them have, they should be forced to pay back every penny they've
earned. That, after all, is what the system does to these "giro bashing scum" when
they've done something wrong...





James H

Fat Cat wrote:

Haghill is, and always will be, a dump. You could build the best quality housing with all mod cons but if you put the same C back in what do you get? Graffitti, litter, filty houses and feral children running amok. I hate GCC but by God no wonder they gave up.

My point exactly Fat Cat, it needs more than housing with all mod cons, I doubt if even a 25% of yir lobby dossing, giro bashing scum, even understand the context of debates such as freewill and determinism, that is the entire point, they dont have a chance because of twallys like YOU, its awe their ane fault Fat Cat.

Areas such as Haghill are recognised throughout Europe as being multiply deprived, e.g. lacking in the essential resources to move their lives forward due to a complex range of factors, its not just as simple as a few new hooses and tellin them to get aff their fat arses and get a job.

James73 wrote:

Their wages are payed for by the public - they dont have the option to 'give
up.' If any of them have, they should be forced to pay back every penny they've
earned. That, after all, is what the system does to these "giro bashing scum" when
they've done something wrong...

Couldn't agree more james73[/quote]

Schiehallion wrote:

mr moto wrote:somone on here must know, how did haghill get such a name ?

It is possible that it is simply a corruption of the name of whoever owned the lands. The original Haghills (note the 's') was bordered by Whitehills and Kennyhills.

I remember reading that the Grays of Carntyne owned the land in this area. I also recollect either a family name or a hamlet (can't remember which) named Kilhagie associated with the area, which I always thought might be the source of the name, i.e Kilhagie hill becoming Haghill, but that's just a theory on my part.

Can anyone shed light on Kilhagie ??

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=469512

Pics on ssc doomsday thread by loose canon.

Any sign of the Haghill Powery in those photos?

Tim

james73 wrote:

Fat Cat wrote:Haghill is, and always will be, a dump. You could build the best quality housing with all mod cons but if you put the same lobby dossing, giro bashing scum back in what do you get? Graffitti, litter, filty houses and feral children running amok. I hate GCC but by God no wonder they gave up.

Their wages are payed for by the public - they dont have the option to 'give
up.' If any of them have, they should be forced to pay back every penny they've
earned. That, after all, is what the system does to these "giro bashing scum" when
they've done something wrong...





James H

When was the last time anyone was in Haghill? Have you seen the amount of money thrown into the area? Like every other "socially deprived" area in Glasgow pot loads of money is thrown at it. The normal residents pull themselves up and do good whereas the inherrant underclass that appears to reside in far too many areas of this city pull things back down again.

It has nothing to do with giro bashing and more to do with the belief of people to get up of their behinds and actually take pride in their family/surroundings etc.

Yes there are lots of substandard, asbestos ridden manky houses (i live in one i know!) but that doesnt mean im chucking my rubbish out the window, pishinig in a close and generally being a manky git because i cant be bothered anymore.

Unfortunately, I totally agree with Fat Cat. Ive seen it too many times, Gorbals/Pollokshaws etc of areas where money is spent and yet it is the inhabitants that pull the place back down again. We can all argue till we are blue in the face about social responsibility/housing problems etc. Its either in you to be a decent person or its not, unfortunately for a lot of folk its not.

Good post Kitten

Ever thought of running for local government?

Fat Cat wrote:Good post Kitten

Ever thought of running for local government? ::):

Worked/lived in far too many of these areas to see the truth behind the spin, unfortunately

My Kitten wrote:

james73 wrote:

Fat Cat wrote:Haghill is, and always will be, a dump. You could build the best quality housing with all mod cons but if you put the same lobby dossing, giro bashing scum back in what do you get? Graffitti, litter, filty houses and feral children running amok. I hate GCC but by God no wonder they gave up.

Their wages are payed for by the public - they dont have the option to 'give
up.' If any of them have, they should be forced to pay back every penny they've
earned. That, after all, is what the system does to these "giro bashing scum" when
they've done something wrong...





James H

When was the last time anyone was in Haghill? Have you seen the amount of money thrown into the area? Like every other "socially deprived" area in Glasgow pot loads of money is thrown at it. The normal residents pull themselves up and do good whereas the inherrant underclass that appears to reside in far too many areas of this city pull things back down again.

It has nothing to do with giro bashing and more to do with the belief of people to get up of their behinds and actually take pride in their family/surroundings etc.

Yes there are lots of substandard, asbestos ridden manky houses (i live in one i know!) but that doesnt mean im chucking my rubbish out the window, pishinig in a close and generally being a manky git because i cant be bothered anymore.

Unfortunately, I totally agree with Fat Cat. Ive seen it too many times, Gorbals/Pollokshaws etc of areas where money is spent and yet it is the inhabitants that pull the place back down again. We can all argue till we are blue in the face about social responsibility/housing problems etc. Its either in you to be a decent person or its not, unfortunately for a lot of folk its not.

I agree with some of what you say, but as job78989 already said, a lot of people
living in these areas "lack the essential resources to move their lives
forward due to a complex range of factors, its not just as simple as a few
new hooses and tellin them to get aff their fat arses and get a job."

New windaes and central heating are great, but the underlying cause of social
malaise are never tackled by gutless spineless politicians. In the same way they
are hysterical reactionaries over things like Buckfast, so it is the case with social
depravation. Their focus is all fucked up.



James H

I fully accept the points made about some aspects of multiple deprivation being complex, and needing complex solutions, however the point I was trying to make is that:

The idea that its all their own fault and they do all these things to themselves, so they should just pull their socks up and get on with it the same as everyone else. This somewhat denies the practicality of things for people who have little or no self-esteem; they find it extremely problematic to do almost anything as they lack self worth or a belief in their ability to achieve anything.

Given such difficult life circumstance, created and supported for generations by council social policy or lack of social policy, these people are being perceived by the wider mainstream community as an underclass, a class of worthless, drug using, thieves, layabouts and yobs, our society creates this unable to perform section of our community as a direct result of the social policy we as a society operate in the free competition of the market place, this results in exploitation of the society and how that exploitation effects an individual will depend totally on the life circumstances the individual finds themselves in.

If your mother is an alcoholic or a junkie, your life chances are reduced to start with, will you every be feed, clothed, schooled etc, etc. probably not too well in any area, but are these children the problem? Or is it the society that allows this to happen?

No easy answer to any of this sort of stuff, and yes there are those with perfectly valid views regarding the need for the individual to have a general respect for all of society and the ability to perceive the need to work and move our own life’s forward. However does the holding of such a view excuse us from the responsibility we have to every member of society to help those who are least able to help themselves.

My point was, that providing new and up graded houses without adequate social support is really just a waste of money, both aspects must go together. I agree with Kittens point I have also seen this happen in many place over the last 30 years masses of investment in property, but little or no money into social policy - result failure after failure.

The need to develop social policy in conjunction with regeneration is essential if we want to achieve real success and start to make the changes that allow people to achieve for themselves.
[/quote]

You're right, there is no easy solution. But to pander to people who make a career out of benefit chasing is not beneficial to society.

Money upon money is pumped into areas like Haghill, Easterhouse, et al and yet they are still litter strewen, graffitti scrawled middins populated by giro bashers who laugh at the system and laugh at those of us who go out to work. I feel great pity for some of the poor children I see knocking about street corners but are they poor - no. Their parents are too busy spending their generous benefits on junk or booze. Get yourself an elbow crutch and a collapsed vein due to years to drug abuse and you're set for life on the benefits merry go round.

I'm tired of hearing about poverty in the UK. Poverty is in Africa.

Indeed the problems are not being tackled by any politician and moral panics about within the spin.

Low self esteem? I'm sorry I dont agree with that at all. Yes you get in a rut, Ive lived with that too. I was brought up with unemployed parents, then a single parent, I have low self esteem problems, live on a giro but I also put myself through the Open University whilst working as our house couldnt afford not to have me working, Ive lived in some grotty areas and had plenty of ups and downs but do I sit in a house surrounded by shit? Do I have a needle sticking out of my arm? A bottle of wine at my side permanently? (only on a friday dears!) This sort of self respect is learned in the home and in the social connections that we form whilst growing up.

I would go so far to say the Junkie mother with access to "support workers", "mentoring projects" and the like will probably, and i see it around me every day, get better help that anything that myself or my parents have ever had access to as "normal" people and I say that through working in the Social Work Service and in community projects too where I saw this on a day to day basis.

So how do we tackle these problems?

My Kitten wrote:Indeed the problems are not being tackled by any politician and moral panics about within the spin.

Low self esteem? I'm sorry I dont agree with that at all. Yes you get in a rut, Ive lived with that too. I was brought up with unemployed parents, then a single parent, I have low self esteem problems, live on a giro but I also put myself through the Open University whilst working as our house couldnt afford not to have me working, Ive lived in some grotty areas and had plenty of ups and downs but do I sit in a house surrounded by shit? Do I have a needle sticking out of my arm? A bottle of wine at my side permanently? (only on a friday dears!) This sort of self respect is learned in the home and in the social connections that we form whilst growing up.

I would go so far to say the Junkie mother with access to "support workers", "mentoring projects" and the like will probably, and i see it around me every day, get better help that anything that myself or my parents have ever had access to as "normal" people and I say that through working in the Social Work Service and in community projects too where I saw this on a day to day basis.

So how do we tackle these problems?

Agree with everything you say, there is no shortage of Glaswegians from "underpriviledged" backgrounds who have had to drag themselves out of the housing scheme.
The problem is some people will never do anything as long as there are spoon feeding, well paid do-gooders turning up at the door patronising them by telling them it is someone else's fault they're in a mess (may be true) and it is someone else's responsibility to get them out of it (def. untrue).
And, by the way, I can remember when Haghill was not a bad area at all, just another working class area of the city.

Oh I'm not sure if I should be posting on this topic but I will force myself!!!

Like Kitten and i'm sure a few other on HG, I had a 'deprived' childhood and lived on the Bru for a couple of years in the 80's and I know how easy it could be to fall into the rut of a DSS lifestyle. But something made me want more for myself than a giro every 2 weeks so I done something about it. Now i'm not saying I have the best paying job in the world (social worker) but I can just about pay my bills, go on holiday and get drunk every now and then. And I love my job. I can't imagine not working, except of course, when I win the lottery

I spent 3 weeks in Ghana last September and saw real poverty. People living in shacks and children as young as 10, working 12 hours a day selling things at the side of the roads. The guy who was my guide used half the money I paid him, to buy his mother diabetic medication. It was the first time in 8 months she had been able to afford it. This sort of poverty just doesn't exist in this country. Yet these poor Ghanaians were in no way like the people we're discussing here. They had self respect, hope and a love of life I found quite inspiring. Seeing people living with such hardship and bearing it with a smile on their faces was something else. Some young guys smoked weed but other drugs were unheard of and the only drunkeness I seen was caused by me and my desicion to pack 3 bottles of whisky in my suitcase

My opinion is that the real poverty experienced in some areas of Glasgow isn't financial but social and moral (sorry for sounding like a right-wing christian fundamentalist winker)

On a lighter note; Did you know that in Ghana, weed is known as wee and there is a locally produced soft drink called Pee Cola?

In spite of all the fashionable talk of social inclusion, and vast amounts of taxpayers money spent on community projects, in some ways there are now fewer routes out of poverty than there were in the past. My Mum was brought up in a poor family, living in a damp-riddled farmhouse with an outside bog. She worked hard at school and got a place at a state grammar school, then went onto university, her costs paid by a full student grant, and then onto a successful career as a university lecturer. Sadly the full student grants and grammar schools which gave motivated kids from poor backgrounds a way out have now gone. So much for "social inclusion".

Personally I think we need less in the way of "right" and "entitlements" and more opportunities for people to get themselves out of poverty.