Tesco Pollok Silverburn

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Well Vlad I welcome your contribution to this topic.

Postby Alex Glass » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:44 pm

Well Vlad I welcome your contribution to this topic. Whilst I may not agree with evrything you say there is merit in your argument.

However, you will have seen the Priesthill area before the new centre's construction began. I hope that the people who gained employment in the construction will go on to better things. Also those who have taken up the employment opportunity at Tesco may one day wish to move on. The other thing I am pleased about is the change in the way people will hopefully see that the area has changed. Shaking off the image people once had of this employment black spot where there was previously a high level of unemployment now local people have the opportunity to work locally.

They may not be the types of jobs that would suit you but some people will be happy that they have their own money in their pocket at the end of the month.

In compareing the jobs and wages of the industrial age I would argue that the work in retail does not damage your health they working in some factories did. I don't recall hearing of a death through working in retail but recall the number of good men and women who have died whilst working in terrible conditions in some industries.

Retails isn't the best we can offer but it is hopefully a positive start on the employment road for those who wish to work there.
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Re: Well Vlad I welcome your contribution to this topic.

Postby james73 » Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:53 pm

Alex Glass wrote:Also those who have taken up the employment opportunity at Tesco may one day wish to move on.

Move onto to what, though? You're delusional if you think "retail skills" are
in any way desirable.



Alex Glass wrote:The other thing I am pleased about is the change in the way people will hopefully see that the area has changed. Shaking off the image people once had of this employment black spot where there was previously a high level of unemployment now local people have the opportunity to work locally.

Who created these disassociated peripheral employment blackspots in the
first place, mate?

GCC.

Now, you want credit for sub-standard attempts at fixing the plethora of problems??



Alex Glass wrote:They may not be the types of jobs that would suit you but some people will be happy that they have their own money in their pocket at the end of the month.

Until their inflated gas and lecky (and council tax, best not forget that one...)
bills come in. Then you'll see the value of your new "employment opportunity..."



Alex Glass wrote:In compareing the jobs and wages of the industrial age I would argue that the work in retail does not damage your health they working in some factories did. I don't recall hearing of a death through working in retail but recall the number of good men and women who have died whilst working in terrible conditions in some industries.

Image I can't let this slide...

So, one should be grateful at earning poverty pay cos "it's not as if you'll be
breathing in asbestos or anything nowadays - we've seen the back of that..."

Image Image Image


Dear.

Oh.

Dear.



James H
He's over there...
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Postby Alex Glass » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:07 am

I am happy to they type of person who sees the glass as half full rather than as you an Vlad always see it as half empty.

I guess with some people you just can't win.

As for the employment black spots. Whislt I am happy to accept that GCC may have been responsible for managing these places they were not responsible for creating them. That responsibilty is with a higher authority. The government that was responsible for the industrial decline and the resulting unemployment that lead to poverty.

Also I am not sorry for hoping that people in employment may have the opportunity to move on to something better. They may not have the skills that you think everyone should have but neither did the labourer who moved about from job to job in order to improve their income.

As for taking credit. If you want to place that responsibilty on me that is for you to determine but let's be clear I didn't at any time say how I was responsible to making my area better than it once was. I only play a very small part in that there are a lot of people who are responsible to the improvements that I think have been made in recent years.

Having said all this I leave it to you if you want to find fault with what I have said. I look forward to continuing this discussion althought I don't for one minute think I will every change your opinion and I wouldn't want to. But then again we all live in hope.
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Postby Vladimir » Sat Jul 08, 2006 8:38 am

I am happy to they type of person who sees the glass as half full rather than as you an Vlad always see it as half empty.


No I see it all but drained to the bottom... You must be another person who thinks industry is totally deadly, where did they train you lot anyway! Its laughable, nobody ever gets hurt in Tescos because you dont do anything but pass things through a machine going 'beep, beep, beep' all day long, sitting on your arse. Anyway, I never heard of anyone dying in the semiconductor industry, if you want an example of a modern one.

All the government can really offer are excuses. And that, 'well I guess we can never change your opinion' crap always offered when there is no backup available. Some supermarket jobs are needed, I will accept that. But an entire economy based on retail is harmful and unsustainable. This idea that 'well they are getting jobs' is pathetic, we can do so much better for people in Scotland than that!

This is not a personal attack, I might add. Im just frustrated at the whole country in general, and its leadership and direction.
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Postby gap74 » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:32 am

I noticed a sign outside Asda Govan recently that said it wouldn't be open 24 hrs for a spell, anyone know why?

As for the new Tesco, Evening Times ran a story yesterday saying that it had been far from smooth recently - the developers threatened to blockade the petrol station with bulldozers in a dispute over an unpaid bill, and the council are apparently insisting that the main sign is in contravention of planning codes and should be moved below roof level.

Like others, I'm wary of developments this size, and the creeping onward march of the supermarkets. We're shortly to get a new Tesco down the road a bit in Farme Cross, and one can't but hope that the Main Streets of both Cambuslang and Rutherglen don't deteriorate any further than they already have as a result of this.

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Postby Sharon » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:58 am

I find it crushingly disappointing to see Tescos being held up as the great saviour and that bit by bit icreasing power is handed over to these giants and bit by bit our communities become based upon their presence. FFS a supermarket the hub of the community?

And if you are celbrating a few low end jobs offered up for folks in Pollok ... well what about the impact that the power that Tescos has over all their suppliers... and how they are squeezing rural Britian.

It scares me that those with the powers to do so are so quick to sign on the line and welcome tescos in EVERYWHERE. Extrapolate whats happened over the last 10 years and imagine what we have then?

bla blah... too hungover to make all the points well... but Clone Town... umm...

Tescos suck way more out of a community than they can ever return to it. The money and wealth just keeps on flowing out.

Anyway, this has just made my hangover worse.

http://www.tescopoly.org/
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Postby Sharon » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:02 am

More discussion on Tescos here http://hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtop ... ight=tesco

More effort should be put into making it easier for farmers to sell direct to the public than to bring these giants in to suck us dry.

It's a really short term and short sighted solution (definately not the right word) to the problems of Pollok at a much greater expense to well... everyone else who hasnt had their comminities similarly saved by a bloody supermarket.

And I don't want to hear the Anchor business argument. It's just not a good enough one.
Last edited by Sharon on Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby cheesemonster » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:06 am

Ally Doll wrote:When I worked in retail, during and after uni, I saw people around me promoted with no real skills...
Good retail staff are worth their weight in gold - but there are too few and they go largely unappreciated.


I actually received 2 wage increases when working for Lidl part time while i was at uni (over a 2 year period).
I don't recommend Lidl as a place to work though, it was pretty demanding - on a typical day it would just be me and the manager/ass.manager in the store and you'd be expected to be the sole person on the till, put out pallets and act as a security guard as well. It also involved lots of unpaid overtime and lotos of cut short lunchbreaks. So thank god i don't work there anymore, oh and the starting salary in Lidl isn't £7 like everyone seems to think, it was £4.40 when i was there
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Postby Alex Glass » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:08 am

Vlad

I try never to take anything personal on HG.

There is a whole lot that you say that I am in agreement with. An economy based on retail its self would be a bad thing. I just don't agree that this is what is happening. Retail for some is a means to an end. Taking Glasgow and its previous higher than average unemployment rate. Something had to be done to change this. At the moment we are going through a period of rebirth for Glasgow. There are a substantial number of construction jobs in the city as well as the fact that we are also providing the type of services and facilities that people what to use. Throught time this may change and we need to be prepared for that change. When we lost our industrial base we were not in a position to adapt to that change. This resulted in the high unemployment rates of the 80's and early 90's.

Glasagow has changes since then and we are on a path that I hope will prove to be successful. I accept that you may have a different view and only time will tell which of us is more right than wrong. I don't believe we have an economy bases on retail but it is like other sections playing its part in the recovery of Glasgow.
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Postby crusty_bint » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:40 pm

The investment being made at Pollok is something thats a long time coming and surely somethin you wouldn't deprive the people of the surrounding areas of? Of course Vlad is correct in saying that retail jobs are low paid and low skilled but I have never read anything claiming otherwise. The fact of the matter is that Pollok and its environs was not served properly by the existing Pollok Centre and Tescos therein so this expansion of services can only be welcomed.

In regrds to te jobs aspect and people 'moving on', you must bear in mind that for a lot of people in these areas (and all over Glasgow) this could be thier first job in years, decades, even ever, and so employemnt by Tesco, whether that be in the construction or operational stage, can and will be seen by some as a first step either on or back on the employment ladder. After years of unemployment, for whatever reason, it is difficult to find your way back into the working environment. You confidence becomes diminished and it can be an extremely stressful experience for people entering back into employment. You should also take into consideration that these jobs suit some people, take for example single mothers who needs a shift or work pattern that will fit with her kids school times. I could rhyme off plenty of other people from Pollok's experiences and thier reasons why a job at Tesco suits them.

In saying all that I agree that retail jobs and the retail sectoor as the mainstay of the Scottish economy is not a sustainable option, but ten, no-one has claimed it to be oter than Vlad. But what Alex has said is that its a vital part of the multi billion pound regenration that is happening in Greater Glasgow (if such a thing still exists). Retail jobs are the grass roots almost, on which further expansion of business and employment opprtunites will happen in time and wit the right nurturing.

I agree with everyones sentiments about Tesco (and supermarkets in generall) being the death-knell for many traditional ways of shopping and retailing but I never hear anyone bringing thier ideas for a solution to te table? It's very rarely anything constructive is said on the matter. I'm also sure that there isn't a single person on this forum who sees industry as evil and a solely bad thing, but the simple fact of the matter is that heavy industry becomes less and less viable in Scotland and any other "developed" nation on the planet with every passing year. There is just no way we can compete for these types of jobs with the likes of China and India, we simply expect too much from our lives these days and have high aspirations for our lifestyles. So when did this become such a bad thing? Sure, industry creates a lot of money and skilled jobs but at what cost?

Each sector have thier pros and cons, but ask yourself (not you Vlad, I know what your answer will be ::): ), given the option, where would you rather work?

Tescos or a steel mill, or a coal mine, or a concrete factory, or a... ?

Ps, Govan Asda is going under further expansion which is why it's not open 24hrs just now
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Postby Vladimir » Sat Jul 08, 2006 2:35 pm

I know Im not meant to answer but I ask this: Crusty, have you ever worked in any kind of 'industry' before? Or been near a factory? My dad works in the semiconductor industry, as an example. It may not be as dangerous as steel making, but probably more people die of cancer in Scotland than in all the steel mills on earth put together. To say...

we simply expect too much from our lives these days and have high aspirations for our lifestyles. So when did this become such a bad thing? Sure, industry creates a lot of money and skilled jobs but at what cost?


...suggests that he would rather work at a checkout because according to you he would expect better than to work in industry. We had to leave Scotland because of this lie we are all being told. Nobody seems to want to accept the factories closed because the workers were paid real wages! No it was because industry was in some way bad, dangerous and demeaning, and retail work was more futuristic and fulfilling. Because industry is old fashioned. How many years do you think shops have been around! The lifestyle people want (and are told to want) is not one they will ever get and its time to accept that.

I dont think people are understanding that the only jobs that are going to be left in Scotland are ones that they cannot export, in other words retail jobs. Even office jobs are exportable, just wait and see...
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Postby crusty_bint » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:07 pm

In answer to your question Vlad: yes. Also, my family's background on both sides is in industry.

Vlad wrote:Nobody seems to realise the factories closed because the workers were paid real wages!


is what I was hinting at wen I said this:

crusty_bint wrote:I'm also sure that there isn't a single person on this forum who sees industry as evil and a solely bad thing, but the simple fact of the matter is that heavy industry becomes less and less viable in Scotland and any other "developed" nation on the planet with every passing year. There is just no way we can compete for these types of jobs with the likes of China and India


Vlad wrote:I dont think people are understanding that the only jobs that are going to be left in Scotland are ones that they cannot export, in other words retail jobs.


That's very naive of you.

You're welcome to answer my question Vlad (which, incidently, was purely for the purposes of rhetoric), but I ask you, where did I say that people who currently work in Industry would or should expect better? the way it stands at present people do make decent livings from working in Industry, which is exactly why it is no longer viable on a large scale in devloped nations. Companies and corporations are out to make money, no matter who they are or what they do, and thier main interest is in preserving thier bottom line, not in giving employees a decent wage with good conditions. That all comes secondary.

The shift from industry in this country is simply a reflection of the evolution of our society, much like Domestic Service as an industry largely died out with the Edwardians. Rather than romanticising about the halcyon days of heavy industry and giving loans, grants and tax-breaks to manufacturing companies to set up business in this country we should be devoting this money to research and development of new technologies and new industries. A point wich you seem to miss, or negate to express.

No-one entirely disagrees with you Vlad (I'm sure), you're an intelligent guy and obviously have both a passion for this nation and an understanding of the of the problems we (as a nation) do, and will face. However you seem to lack an understanding of the wider picture and the contextual nature (historically) of this shift which is down to the fact you're still quite young. Whic is in no way a bad thing! The simple fact of the matter is tat we knew this decline was happening a century ago, and we've been clinging on since. The coal and ore is gone, the oil is on it's way. It's time to move on to pasture new. Supermarkets are a vey small glade in this pasture.
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Postby Vladimir » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:40 pm

of this shift which is down to the fact you're still quite young.


You play that 'age' card every time! How old are you anyway? I understand what happened, I dont need to have lived through it, I have heard all about how this country has been sliding downhill over the years. How life was better in the past, this coming from oldies like yourself! We had less money, but more sense...

That's very naive of you.


Yes, whatever you say...

we should be devoting this money to research and development of new technologies and new industries. A point wich you seem to miss, or negate to express.


Would you like to name some of these new industries, and 'luxury flats' is not one of them.

It's time to move on to pasture new. Supermarkets are a vey small glade in this pasture.


As they should stay! But they are increasingly becoming the entire 'pasture' and that is what I am trying to highlight... Every day, this, I think I might retire... ::):

we knew this decline was happening a century ago


8O Are you really that old!!! ::):
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Postby crusty_bint » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:54 pm

Vladimir wrote:Your arrogance


Image, Image ?

I'm not trying to undermine you Vlad, just trying to understand you. Is it not a fact you are still in your teens? There's no need to go blowing up because you don't agree with me. Proves my point really - yer still a pup! A fact which I stated was in no way a bad thing - an enviable position to some perhaps?

Anyway, thats all irrelevant and I'm sorry you take such offence to it. The rest of your post is incoherent and has no real point other than a feeble attampt at provocation and so I won't bother continuing this with you.
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Postby Vladimir » Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:07 pm

There's no need to go blowing up because you don't agree with me. Proves my point really - yer still a pup


::): Right, I suppose old folk like yourself just agree with what everybody says! You clearly dont agree, so you are as much a pup as I am! Shall we leave it at that? :roll:
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