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Charlie Endell wrote:I wish I'd noticed this thread before trying to work out how traffic from St Enoch made its way to Strathbungo as it would have given me a good head start. I'd thought Crossrail "merely" involved using the former St Enoch to Paisley Canal line that is still in existence between Shields Junction and High Street
The City Union Line
(I'm sure I actually saw a train travelling on this a good number of years back when I was on a bus in Eglinton Street, although perhaps my memory is playing tricks and it was just a dream)
It is used to move cl156 trains from Eastfield De[pot and Queen St, round to Corkerhill for servicing and maintenance.
No disrespect, but I think you guys are missing the point I was trying to make.
Would Crossrail be possible if……………………..?
If not, why are they paying people to run a website devoted to an imaginary project which after the M74 extension is built is as likely as anything that Hans Christian Andersen could have come up with?
Let's run a brand new railway line over (or under) a new six lane motorway!!!!!!!
Found this on Railscot, don't know if you've seen it before or if it's of any help: -
"Sections of the motorway will be on raised onto viaducts. Between West Street and Pollokshaws Road the motorway will be raised. This section will cross over the lines from Glasgow Central running west and south and the City of Glasgow Union Railway route. This seems sensible. The next section running from Pollokshaws Road to Cathcart Road will be on an embankment. The road planners are aware of a possible Gorbals Junction to Strathbungo Junction re-opening and have this marked on their public plans. What has not been included is a possible Larkfield Junction to Gorbals Junction link - along the site of the former Gushetfaulds freightliner terminal and earlier South Side terminus. The alignment of the M74 may be sufficiently far away from the railway to allow this to be laid in on a moderately tight curve. There are currently no plans to open this route."
Edited to add: Is that better Dexter? I'd copied and pasted the above so not responsible for the content. Funnily enough putting a 'c' in it annoys me too but my pedantry levels are running low on a Sunday morning so I didn't bother correcting it initially. I lived just off it (Eastwood Ave. in Shawlands) long enough to know (proof can be found in my post of 10 Nov. in the Glasgow Railway Termini thread - page 4).
Anorak wrote: If not, why are they paying people to run a website devoted to an imaginary project which after the M74 extension is built is as likely as anything that Hans Christian Andersen could have come up with?
Let's run a brand new railway line over (or under) a new six lane motorway!!!!!!!
I don't quite understand what would make it impossible. I confess to not having studied the proposed routes in any great detail (i've been looking for a detailed Google Earth overlay, can't find one for either), but surely the route of the M74 catastrophe is quite a bit south of the Crossrail route?
Rucola, maybe I was a bit rash in some of my comments………… as usual?
I think Charlie Endell has come up with the answer I was looking for. Thanks.
I’ll need to read the extract over a few times with some old maps and Google Earth in an effort to visualise what it is really saying about allowances for future railway development around the completed M74 extension.
Charlie Endell wrote:Found this on Railscot, don't know if you've seen it before or if it's of any help: -
That was a brilliant find Charlie. The official websites for both projects don’t tell us very much about the interaction between the two projects. Their graphics are very basic and it is very difficult to identify much detail at the key sites along the routes.
I was surprised to find that the lines referred to in the Railscot extract actually cover the same track discussed in the Glasgow Rail Termini thread, http://www.hiddenglasgow.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4710&start=30 They were originally laid back in the 1840’s for trains running out of the extinct South Side Station….. we’re running with dinosaurs!
“Between West Street and Pollokshaws Road the motorway will be raised. This section will cross over the lines from Glasgow Central running west and south and the City of Glasgow Union Railway route.”
The City of Glasgow Union Railway route ran from Gorbals Junction to Paisley by way of West Street. It’s part of the proposed Crossrail scheme. I’ve shown in as “Paisley Line” in the above graphic.
The path of the tracks running south from Gorbals Junction is still easy to find on Google Earth. The old Barrhead Line, for trains to East Kilbride, Barrhead and Kilmarnock, ran along a viaduct behind Pollokshaws Road which is still there although the track has been lifted. The path of the old line to Lanarkshire, Carlisle and the South can still be easily spotted on Google Earth, all the way to Larkfield Junction.
A closer look at the point where the elevated motorway will cross Pollokshaws Road.
“The next section running from Pollokshaws Road to Cathcart Road will be on an embankment. The road planners are aware of a possible Gorbals Junction to Strathbungo Junction re-opening and have this marked on their public plans. What has not been included is a possible Larkfield Junction to Gorbals Junction link - along the site of the former Gushetfaulds freightliner terminal and earlier South Side terminus. The alignment of the M74 may be sufficiently far away from the railway to allow this to be laid in on a moderately tight curve. There are currently no plans to open this route."
If the motorway remains elevated over the path of the old Barrhead line, it looks as if it could come back into use for the Crossrail project. Sometimes fairy stories can come true!
What would have been a really useful Crossrail link to the West Coast Main Line, allowing trains from the North of Scotland direct access to Carlisle and the South, doesn’t look to be on the cards. It wouldn’t necessarily have to follow the path of the previous line. According to the M74 site, http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/projects/m74-completion/the-project/the-route the motorway extension will go over Cathcart Road on a new bridge, while the West Coast Main Line runs under Cathcart Road. Any Crossrail branch line would obviously also have to go under Cathcart Road.
Still not convinced we are looking at a joined up, integrated transport policy!
More excellent annotated maps and photographs, Anorak. From reading this thread, the one on Glasgow rail termini and a couple of other sources my knowledge level of Crossrail and Southside rail routes and junctions (with a particular emphasis on St Enoch to Strathbungo) has gone from 'novice' to 'intermediate'.
Went walkabout looking at the proposed Crossrail routes and saw the light! I’m now converted to being both a Crossrail and M74 fan.
Train from Central Station on Barrhead Line at Strathbungo Junction.
The leftmost tracks are for the Cathcart Circle Line, which splits from the Barrhead Line at Muirhouse Junction, a short distance away. The rightmost tracks are coming from Eglinton Toll, under Victoria Road. This is part of the old Barrhead line from St Enoch which is intended for the Crossrail link. It’s quite easy to follow the track to where it joins the West Coast Main Line.
This is me in Pollokshaws Road, standing under the proposed motorway looking towards Devon Street. The reinforcement rods are in place for the piers to carry the motorway over my head.
This is me close to the bridge over the West Coast Main Line at Cathcart Road. When the motorway is constructed, It will fly over where I am standing. I’ve marked the embankment carrying the Barrhead Line from Gorbals Junction. The embankment is being used as a road for the construction traffic, with an earth ramp taking the trucks down to the site.
This is me at the entrance to West Street Subway Station, looking at the construction of the M74 westbound, close to the spot where it will link with the M8 and M77.
If the Crossrail scheme goes ahead there will also be a rail interchange here.
They’ll need plenty of car parking to fully utilise a place with immediate access to 3 motorways, a Subway Station and a Rail Interchange.
"The announcement yesterday signals the end of Glasgow Crossrail. The often called-for and long-awaited scheme, described as "Scotland's missing railway link", was not included in the list of 29 projects to be taken forward as a priority in the next 20 years.
The minister said instead significant works could include a new station or stations constructed in the city centre to link the networks to the north, south and east of the city, and/or plans for a metro or light rapid transit system to improve connectivity across the city, but no mention of "Crossrail".
Project 24 says that west of Scotland rail enhancements will aim to "increase rail capacity in central Glasgow to increase public transport access to areas of economic activity and key public services". The project has a price tag of between £1.5bn and £3bn.
A spokeswoman for Transport Scotland said there were capacity constraints at Glasgow Central and Queen Street stations and problems crossing the city. However, she added: "Crossrail doesn't answer that problem." "
Absolute disgrace that it has been ignored, almost as bad as the UK Government's decision to stop the so called UK high speed train link at Manchester.
"The minister said instead significant works could include a new station or stations constructed in the city centre to link the networks to the north, south and east of the city, and/or plans for a metro or light rapid transit system to improve connectivity across the city, but no mention of "Crossrail".
He has read my webpage and taken heed of my advice to construct the link as a strategic link for all rail transport, not the parochial little scheme dreamt up by the SPT, I am heading to the bank to cash my £500K fee, as a squadron of winged Suidae pass overhead. Seriously though I have read this report several times and I cannot see what other means they have at their disposal to deliver the above statement without use of the City Union line that was the key to Crossrail, I think that the new proprosal, once it is fleshed out will be something similar, but without the Needless High Street Spur.
I am attempting to determine whether the Newton to Carmyle Chord proposed route is on any of the scheduled transportation projects for the City. I appreciate that the Glasgow Crossrail initiative appears dead in the water but is there a possibility for a lightweight rapid transit operation coming forward? The route is safeguarded in the emerging City Plan 2, however it does seem an extravagence when assessing the impact on Carmyle?
I think the problem with the Newton to Carmyle chord is that it doesn't really go anywhere. The former trackbed between Parkhead Stadium and Carmyle has been heavily built on, which is a crying shame as it would serve some parts of the east end which I think would now benefit from a direct rail link into town.
I can see no real benefit in providing a direct link between Newton and Carmyle, the lines join up anyways just before Rutherglen. And the viaduct over the Clyde would probably need replacing too, haven't seen it receive any maintenance for years!
Yes, my sentiments exactly, however, the powers that be....strategic thinkers at Transport Scotland...believe that this route will take pressure off the Rutherglen to City line if delays occurred? I cannot believe that there are actually people paid to come up with this sort of thinking!!!
Purpose of Report: To appraise Committee of the strategic importance of Glasgow Crossrail to the rail network and Scotland’s economy and the urgent need for its promotion as a National project.
Recommendations: Committee notes the contents of this report.
1. BACKGROUND 1.1 The concept of a ‘Glasgow Crossrail’ scheme, whereby the passenger rail networks north and south of the River Clyde are interconnected, has been supported by Glasgow City Council and its predecessor authorities for many years. During this time various ‘Crossrail’ proposals have been developed. These range from an upgrade of existing freight-only lines to provide a route for passenger services to building a new main-line rail tunnel and station beneath the City Centre. 1.2 Most recently, in 2006/7, Strathclyde Partnership for Transport (SPT) proved the feasibility of a scheme comprising: A.An upgrade of the former City Union line between High Street Junction and Shields Junction B.Construction of the Strathbungo Link between the Kilmarnock line and the City Union line C.Construction of the ‘St John’s Link’ between the City Union line and the Queen Street low level line and Potential new stations at Glasgow Cross, West Street and Gorbals. Further work, undertaken in accordance with the Scottish Transport Appraisal Guidance (STAG), was commissioned by SPT in 2007 and reported to the Partnership in July 2008. This demonstrated that all elements of the scheme generated substantial benefits over the 60-year appraisal period and that, of the options tested, an Ayr-Edinburgh service operating via the City Union line exhibited the most positive economic case. 1.3 At that time, neither Network Rail, Transport Scotland nor First Scotrail had any plans to progress Glasgow Crossrail, although the scheme was included in Network Rail’s 2007 Scottish Route Utilisation Strategy (RUS) as a third party scheme with SPT as promoter. SPT subsequently has lost its operational responsibilities for rail services to Transport Scotland, who, in their 2008 Strategic Transport Projects Review (STPR), rejected the proposals for Crossrail developed by SPT. The Scotland RUS – Generation 2, reported to Committee on 16 November 2010 makes no mention of Glasgow Crossrail.
