Lockerbie Remembered

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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby Dugald » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:33 pm

Since the last post I submitted on this topic was lost to "down-for-maintenance", I thought I'd treat myself to another attempt at it. Like most of you, I recall very clearly the day this tragedy struck Lockerbie... no doubt a terrible event for this little Scottish town. The current point however, is focussed on this fellow Megrahi and the attempt being made to have him released from prison on medical grounds.

I believe this fellow should be released from prison, but not for medical reasons but rather, for reasons of deep doubt as to his guilt. I think he is innocent, and the evidence used to convict him was at best exceedingly flimsy, and more than likely, fabricated. There is the feeling in Scottish legal circles that Megrahi "may have suffered a miscarriage of justice". There are substantial and reasonable grounds for at least a further hearing if not immediate release.

We might bear in mind that it has never been proved that Libya or Gaddafi had anything to do with the bombing of the plane that blew up over Lockerbie... despite substantial cash payments being made by Libya to relatives of the deceased. All that existed against Libya and Gaddafi, was a motive to carry out terrorist activities; nothing more was ever proved. Yes, the sad part is of course, the loss of innocent lives. These lives, sorry to say, are what Donald H. Rumsfeld called collateral damage; hardly a consoling explanation for tragedies similar to Lockerbie, but a fact apparently, of what goes on in today's world.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby BrigitDoon » Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:22 pm

Motives? Collateral damage? My suspicious mind says that there is something up the back of it all about which we've never been told. There's oil in Libya, let's not forget, and there's no limit to human ingenuity and determination when there's black gold at stake... I'd be surprised if this didn't figure large in the affair.

I'll not form theories without verifiable data; the matter, I fear, will remain unresolved in our time.

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One that stayed up, thankfully, and in South African livery. Enjoy. One 747 pilot of my acquaintance saw fit to pay me for a copy. I was flattered.

I hope you don't mind me intruding part of the Brigit aviation library on this thread, but I fear it could become a little uncomfortable in here without a little relief. I've had a few tears once already already over this and it gets a little claustrophobic. Sorry if it's a little emotional. I've had people in planes longer than I remember and it cuts to the core when either or both come to earth with indecent haste, for whatever reason.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby Dugald » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:53 pm

Enjoyed reading your post BrigitDoon, and much and all as I like your colourful picture of a South African airliner, let me say that if it's serviced by the same quality of mechanics who service the traffic lights in Durban, then I'm no gonnie fly oan it! Anyway, as you suggest, it might well afford the relief you speak of.

Yes, you're right, there's oil in Libya, and this explains how the once-poverty-stricken Libya could manage to pay such high compensations to the relatives of the Lockerbie victims. But does it explain the reasons for the terrorist bombing over this little town in Scotland? Contrary to what your suspicious mind says Brigit, I don't think the oil had much to do with the terrorist action that killed 11 totally innocent Lockerbie people and many others. I mean, as far as we know there's no oil in Palestine, yet this region features to a great extent in plots similar to that which brought such great sorrow to Lockerbie.

You say, and I assume you are referring here to the guilt of Megrahi, that you won't form theories without verifiable data. But isn't your opinion that Megrahi should stay in prison based on evidence which itself was not conclusively verifiable, and is now in fact, deemed highly suspect... yes, even by those who suffered the loss of loved ones stemming from this terrorist action over Lockerbie?

Ach c'mon Brigit, subscribe to the notion that this sick man should be given a break and allowed out of prison while his appeal is being heard.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby Dexter St. Clair » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:56 pm

Syria did it on a contract from Iran but then they became our pals whilst Libya wasn't.

Now they are so everything's all right?
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby BrigitDoon » Sun Dec 28, 2008 2:02 pm

Dugald wrote:Ach c'mon Brigit, subscribe to the notion that this sick man should be given a break and allowed out of prison while his appeal is being heard.

As I said, we shouldn't form theories on inadequte data and who here really has the entire facts before them? We simply don't know what's at the back of it all. I'm not a cold-hearted old bag and I think it would reflect credit on our judicial system to hear this man's appeal with all good speed, otherwise it's highly probable that he'll die first.

I think we're all owed an explanation, but I doubt we'll be able to wield the Freedom of Information Act at this one.

As for your traffic-light engineer, I doubt he'd get a look in, servicing 747's. I used to frequent a pub where one of the other regulars was a British Airways long-haul pilot. He loved his 747, but was always slightly envious of the South Africans. He delighted in the paint scheme on the tail-fin, but I'm sure there was more to it than that. Of course, South Africa was one of his regular destinations and he would have had good opportunity to compare notes with his counterparts there. I doubt their 747's would pull up at the lights at 30,000ft. :)
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby hazy » Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:51 pm

It is also the anniversary of the tragic death of one of the lawyers who was representing some of the people of Lockerbie. I am not 100% but I am sure his name was Hughes the poor guys wife was left to bring up five young children.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby onyirtodd » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:39 am

Doorstop wrote:Until proven otherwise, guilty he is.

No Brownie points for being terminally ill in my book.


He may well be both guilty and terminally ill be he's still making MacAskill jump through hoops and creating a very dangerous precendent.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby Doorstop » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:00 am

Agreed. MacAskill should have steered himself around this one .. there's obviously backroom shenanigans powering this particular political engine.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby lordsleek » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:29 pm

Doorstop wrote:Agreed. MacAskill should have steered himself around this one .. there's obviously backroom shenanigans powering this particular political engine.

I'm not entirely sure he , as justice minister, could steer around this one. I understand he is the arbiter of the decision to transfer, release or leave as is, Al Megrahi. Whether his guilt or innocence is absolutely safe or not he has been convicted. I don't know where the rumours come from but the thought of the scro being responsible for a conspiricy is laughable. They couldny find there arse wi' two hands and a torch.
Whether they let him out or not is immaterial as he will be dead shortly, and if guilty he is not solely so. I think people would be better worrying about those who were never found and charged.

dying in prison hospital or local hospital the key word here is dying.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby Doorstop » Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:25 pm

If Al Megrahi was inside for tanning someone's jaw outside a local hostelry would it have have warranted such a high profile approach?

I think not. It would have been filed in the "No Chance" pile and he would have stayed put without a second thought.

Convicted is convicted .. this whole business is beginning to smell strongly of Megrahi being used in some sort political leverage with no thought to the victims of the Lockerbie tragedy.

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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby onyirtodd » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:06 pm

Jack Straw seems have managed to release Ronnie Biggs on compassionate grounds with the need to wallow in the publicity of visiting him in prison or in hospital.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby Lucky Poet » Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:16 pm

onyirtodd wrote:Jack Straw seems have managed to release Ronnie Biggs on compassionate grounds with the need to wallow in the publicity of visiting him in prison or in hospital.

Aye. You're quite correct. Thanks for your insight.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby Doorstop » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:04 am

I'm a bit cynical about the release of Ronnie Biggs.

After all this time with him being incarcerated while suffering deteriorating health, his release at this particular juncture seems very much like an exercise in sweetening the pill v.v. setting a precedent for the much more bitter prospect of the Al Magrahi release.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby floweredpig » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:11 am

Doorstop wrote:I'm a bit cynical about the release of Ronnie Biggs.

After all this time with him being incarcerated while suffering deteriorating health, his release at this particular juncture seems very much like an exercise in sweetening the pill v.v. setting a precedent for the much more bitter prospect of the Al Magrahi release.

Yes ,that thought did occur to me this morning.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby onyirtodd » Fri Aug 07, 2009 8:39 am

floweredpig wrote:
Doorstop wrote:I'm a bit cynical about the release of Ronnie Biggs.

After all this time with him being incarcerated while suffering deteriorating health, his release at this particular juncture seems very much like an exercise in sweetening the pill v.v. setting a precedent for the much more bitter prospect of the Al Magrahi release.

Yes ,that thought did occur to me this morning.


Without seeking to prejudice MacAskill's deliberations I'd have thought a high profile and controversial decision such as this from the MInistry of Justice would chase MacAskill off in the opposite direction, if only on a 'we're tougher on serious crime than Westminster' tack.
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