Lockerbie Remembered

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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby onyirtodd » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:09 am

tedmaul wrote:
Bing Buzby wrote:If some eedjit decides to to cancel their bus tour of the lochs over this, then that is easily a price worth paying for a justice system that does not bow before the whimsy of Fox News.


The Justice Secretary is in charge of justice, that's correct.

He is not charge of the nation's compassion.

If we needed a Compassion Secretary, we could vote for one.


Yeah, but if s/he got only 47 votes out of a possible 129 would that person have any moral authority?
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby tedmaul » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:14 am

http://martinkelly.blogspot.com/2009/08 ... -wing.html

"Yet the fact that he was paid does not of itself compromise the value of his evidence in any way. If it did, every conviction obtained for which 'Crimestoppers' has offered a reward should be considered unsafe. Anyone suggesting that in public? No.

...

I'm a bit rusty, I know, but I was unaware that the Scottish law of evidence contains a blanket ban forbidding potential witnesses to read newspapers.

...

If this alone renders Megrahi's conviction unsafe, then every conviction obtained through the medium of Crimewatch, whether through its salacious crime-porn dramatisations or by the appeals of the photogenic WPC's.....must also be considered unsafe.

...

For all of the law of Scotland's legion faults - the laws on the collection of municipal debt still remain barbarically mid-Victorian, for example, a state of affairs which a decade of devolution has done nothing to improve - Scotland's judges are clean. They have always been clean. I cannot bring myself to believe anything else; and for anything else to be said is, in my opinion, mischief-making. Dalyell's late father in law was once Scotland's second highest-ranking judge. Perhaps there is merit in the maxim that familiarity breeds contempt.

...

Scottish civic nationalism is not renowned for its principles - the SNP's preposterous adoption of the title 'The Scottish Government' to describe its minority devolved Scottish Executive is a particularly egregious case in point - yet when it was forced to act on principle, to stand up for the law of Scotland, it did. Faced with an impossibly high profile convict, medical reports from hell, Hillary Clinton, the Libyans, Christine Grahame putting in her typically vocal and unhelpful tuppenceworth and the sure and certain knowledge that the press and his political opponents would crucify him whatever he did, he took a difficult decision which under the law of Scotland only he could make."
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby Dexter St. Clair » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:24 am

They have always been clean. I cannot bring myself to believe anything else; and for anything else to be said is, in my opinion, mischief-making.


Some Edinburgh shenanigans round sex suggested other wise in the eighties.Remember they were all lawyers.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby onyirtodd » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:50 am

tedmaul wrote:http://martinkelly.blogspot.com/2009/08/like-bird-on-wing.html

.
...

Scottish civic nationalism is not renowned for its principles - the SNP's preposterous adoption of the title 'The Scottish Government' to describe its minority devolved Scottish Executive is a particularly egregious case in point - yet when it was forced to act on principle, to stand up for the law of Scotland, it did. Faced with an impossibly high profile convict, medical reports from hell, Hillary Clinton, the Libyans, Christine Grahame putting in her typically vocal and unhelpful tuppenceworth and the sure and certain knowledge that the press and his political opponents would crucify him whatever he did, he took a difficult decision which under the law of Scotland only he could make."



And, to add insult to injury our Justice Secretary is a football hooligan.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby onyirtodd » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:22 am

From The Diary

A READER in a London boozer overhears a chap at the bar declare: "I know when you go to Scotland you have to use their own Monopoly money.

"But I didn't realise they give you a Get Out of Jail Free card as well."
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby Josef » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:32 am

John wrote:"Dear Muammar....happy Ramadan.." - Gordon Brown.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/aug/2 ... -lockerbie

From the Guardian too!


Not to cast aspersions on the verity of the article, but it's technically from The Observer, which I've always found to be unreadable tosh despite being a reader of the Guardian. Although that's true of all Sunday newspapers. I can just about tolerate the Independent on Sunday, but other than that...
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby Bing Buzby » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:42 am

tedmaul wrote:
The Justice Secretary is in charge of justice, that's correct.

He is not charge of the nation's compassion.

If we needed a Compassion Secretary, we could vote for one.


To remove compassion from justice is to create something so narrow as can only be called injustice.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby John » Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:44 am

Good point Josef. It looks like The Observer will be no more soon anyway.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby hazy » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:52 pm

On Radio 5 on Sat this really smug Interviewer was having a go about Scottish goods being not being exported to gold old Uncle Sam. Quick as a flash the Scottish guy replied very elequaintly " Yes we have already started a Haggis cull". ::):
But lets turn our minds back when Gerry Adams at an invite from senators had 51 hours of being treated like a film star with the good old boys. He was lauded on CNN,larry King and various nationwide brealkfast shows . He was treated like some romantic freedom fighter. While the collection cans had with the knowledge of every politician in the country been passed around collecting for the cause. And where did the dollar bill end up. Libya to buy weapons that killed inocent people in the UK. Now the good old boys want to castigate Scotland . Fuckin short memory if you ask me. And what did our UK goverment do ,the usual nothing.
An artical in The Scotsman ( not 100% sure ) basically it was about MacKaskill getting aboutsolute pelters from the worlds media for not allowing Megrahi out on compasionate release. It just reversed his outcome but it was a different slant on it. I always thought that no matter the outcome it would have been the wrong one. There is far more that is being held in secret than we will never know about.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby Lone Groover » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:14 pm

Good points Hazy.

New York thought those plucky freedom fighters were a cause worthy of support, until someone explained to them in large enough letters what an explosion was like.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby ibtg » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:29 pm

I think that, if Megrahi had been placed under 'house arrest' or confined in hospital or a pallative care environment in Scotland, those very politicians who are now baying for the blood of the Justice Minister for not 'exploring all the options' would be baying for his blood for costing the Scottish taxpayer money for the security measures that would have had to be put in place and the medication, nursing and accommodation that would have involved.

He could never win with the opposition parties, who have demeaned themselves in my eyes by playing their usual Party Politics over his decision.

I think he made the correct decision, especially when you stop and consider the pressure he was under. Do the others put themselves in his place? No, they go for the jugular.

I am glad that, for once, a politician has had the guts to stand up to the USA (who seem to think they rule the world) and take a measured and considered decision to grant a man his last months at home with his family. No matter whether he is actually guilty or not - he was found guilty and has to be treated as such, but I agree wholeheartedly with the fact this does not mean we have to stoop to the terrorists level. We should be able to show humanity without appearing weak.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby Lucky Poet » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:33 pm

The political grandstanding over the whole thing is disappointing but not very surprising.

*Newsflash* 'Politician tries to exploit event for electoral gain.'

(I've enjoyed the Herald's coverage, for providing a wee island of sanity and considered comment. No, I'm not on commission, honest.)
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby tedmaul » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:18 am

ibtg wrote:I think that, if Megrahi had been placed under 'house arrest' or confined in hospital....
He could never win with the opposition parties, who have demeaned themselves in my eyes by playing their usual Party Politics over his decision.

I think he made the correct decision....

I am glad that, for once, a politician has had the guts to stand up to the USA (who seem to think they rule the world) and take a measured and considered decision to grant a man his last months at home with his family.


What absolute shite.

Two utterly moronic arguments - criticising opposition parties for something they DIDN'T ACTUALLY DO and then assume the decision must be right because some people in the US didn't like it.

For fuck sake. Seriously. :evil:

I hope every prisoner in Scotland is bombarding the specky twat with demands for compassionate release.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby ibtg » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:00 am

tedmaul, thank you for your reasoned and eloquent response.

P.S. You obviously don't listen to BBC Radio Scotland.
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Re: Lockerbie Remembered

Postby jodieohdoh » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:21 am

I've been hauled out of lurkerdom by the grating sound of Annabel Goldie on GMS, treating us all to her bollocks opinions on Kenny McCaskill's reasoning behind his decision to release Mr Al Megrahi. If you listen carefully you can hear her thanking God that the Tories will never be in power in Scotland & therefore she will never have to make a decision like this!! The GMS presenter pointed out to her that she was talking bollocks & she just started from the beginning again...

I haven't enough knowledge on this to contribute to the "innocent/guilty" poll. I do think
1- The justice minister did the wise thing by visiting the chap in prison- it says a lot about him that he didn't want to make the decision before looking the guy in the eyeballs
2- If you've seen someone dying of prostate cancer (despite the spastic Americans' comments that prostate cancer is 100% curable, I'm sure my Grandpa would argue otherwise) you will appreciate that palliative care is the only option. You cannot give proper palliative care in a prison. The alternative is what, put the guy in St Andrew's hospice with all of the other Scottish patients? They don't have enough beds for deserving Scottish people as it is! Can you imagine the uproar??
3- Of course some hard case who smacked someone in the jaw isn't going to get the same consideration as an internationally known, diplomatic hot potato like Al Megrahi. That's life ain't it. You can't be seriously blaming that on the government.
4- the USA can afford to claim NO high ground on this matter. That's been made eloquently clear by other posters already.

Bloody hell my pulse is racing. Off to get a cuppa & avoid the news!
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