Binge Drinking

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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby escotregen » Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:51 am

OK I've done my bit and I'm now out of this thread - there is them that just will not listen and will not learn :) A few examples from above responses to the facts put before them...

"5 out of every six road related deaths DO NOT INVOLVE ALCOHOL"

... oh well that makes the 1 in six wholly avoidable but for alcohol acceptable? (mind someone and tell the innocent dead victims that)... and of course the poster just ignores the pesky facts on pedestrian and fire related deaths.

"I enjoy a glass of wine with me tea EVERY nite...apparently I'm officially a wino because of that. It's nonsense."

No, the nonsense is that the facts could be so construed by the poster to come up with such a statement. Incidentaly and anyway, on a purely personal note if I found myself having a glass of wine with EVERY evening meal, I really would be wanting to think hard about that.

"The problem ain't the middle class drinking chardonay up the Wimpy estate"

Err.. who, apart from that poster, said that was the problem? This statement was a particular instance of ignoring the facts of what was stated (also might betray a few prejudices that are maybe not really just about alcohol).

"You do need an evidence base that is why the education route has not worked."

OMG! What more does this poster need than the evidence all around us of a national problem; if education ever did work in this situation, we would not be at this stage or still debating with some folks whether there even is a problem.

"And, as you have stated, those who have drink issues will get it anyway (or take a cheaper more poisonous alternative)".

I stated nothing like this - quite the reverse, you need to read what I posted again - but I doubt that will change anything, because the logic in the latter part of your last posting is completely bogus. :wink:

BUt I think it takes some beating for someone to sertiously contedn that "the problem is there is no medical basis for the 21 units, none at all." I admit it, I have no way of contending with such a thinking process.

I suspect that (as with what happened on smoking) there is a great hidden, and growing, popular consensus that we have a chronic problem in Scotland requiring stringent and, yes, constraining measures to help begin to break the current situation so that over the longer term we can dismantle our hard-drinking culture. I think that the 'antis' here in their mixture of denial, unlearning and self-justifing down-playing of the true facts provide a broad reflection of the inadaquacy of the whole selfish and self damaging group of the population who are willing to contend with the wholly uneccessry damage, cost and death that excess alcohol cause - just so that they can go on with their supposed free choice.

As I say, I've done my bit so I'm out of this thread :roll: .
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby onyirtodd » Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:52 am

samscafeamericain wrote:
onyirtodd wrote:
samscafeamericain wrote:
okay I will just whisper this.

3 pints is not binge drinking, a litre bottle of wine shared between two adults is not binge drinking. Don't you see that is the problem? We use a basis for eductation that is ridiculed.


The problem with the pejorative term 'binge drinking' is that, standing alone, it has little or no relevance.

3 pints on a Friday or a Saturday night (or even both) isn't binge drinking. 3 pints every night of the week still wouldn't meet the common definition of 'binge' drinking but the health damage would still be being done. 3 pints of IPA at 3.8% is completely different from 3 pints of Chip Blooterberg at well over 5% (5.3%?).

Alcohol advisors recommend no more than 21 units/ week (for men) ideally spread out over no more than 5 days and that the 2 'clear' days ought not be consecutive.


Onyir, the problem is there is no medical basis for the 21 units, none at all. It was a number dreamed up by a policy advisor, not by health professionals.


It is, of course, only a recommendation and in no way prescriptive unless Mr MacAskilljoy has his way :wink:
238 to 127. All in all a good afternoon's work
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby Blueboy » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:32 am

Binge drinking is undeniably a problem. I'm not saying that because of what I read in the media, but what I see on the streets of Glasgow every weekend.

Educating people is the key. A picture of a swollen and cirrhosis scarred liver sends a powerful message.

Looking to experts and politicians to tell us whether or not we have a problem with alcohol is pathetic. If you don't know yourself, then you're too young to drink.
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby Mori » Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:20 pm

Our booze blues

We know it brings chaos to our city streets, we know it destroys families, we know it's responsible for violence and domestic abuse, we know it's killing us, so why do we still love to drink? Ian Bell looks at our love affair with alcohol

Our booze blues: case study

JUSTICE SECRETARY Kenny MacAskill wants to raise the minimum age for buying drink in off-sales and supermarkets from 18 to 21. But teenagers younger than 18 seem to have no difficulty getting hold of alcohol, and, as this case study illustrates, they often put themselves at risk.

Our booze blues: Why do we drink ... and can the government stop us?

JAMES ALEXANDER, NUS Scotland: "It's easy to blame young people for Scotland's binge-drinking culture, to point towards the minority who become anti-social after a few too many.
But the fact of the matter is, it is not only young people in Scotland who drink too much. The binge-drinking culture is evident in every sector of our society, and it's not going to go away because of a sledgehammer rule, punishing the many for the mistakes of the few
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby samscafeamericain » Sun Jun 29, 2008 3:52 am

OK I've done my bit and I'm now out of this thread - there is them that just will not listen and will not learn A few examples from above responses to the facts put before them...

That is priceless
'once you can get men to believe in absurdities you can get them to commit atrocities' ....Voltaire
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby onyirtodd » Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:08 am

Mori wrote: ..........
JUSTICE SECRETARY Kenny MacAskill wants to raise the minimum age for buying drink in off-sales and supermarkets from 18 to 21. But teenagers younger than 18 seem to have no difficulty getting hold of alcohol, and, as this case study illustrates, they often put themselves at risk.

Our booze blues: Why do we drink ... and can the government stop us?

.....................


ASDA to the rescue

Supermarkets' border raid on SNP booze ban
238 to 127. All in all a good afternoon's work
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby samscafeamericain » Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:42 am

onyirtodd wrote:
Mori wrote: ..........
JUSTICE SECRETARY Kenny MacAskill wants to raise the minimum age for buying drink in off-sales and supermarkets from 18 to 21. But teenagers younger than 18 seem to have no difficulty getting hold of alcohol, and, as this case study illustrates, they often put themselves at risk.

Our booze blues: Why do we drink ... and can the government stop us?

.....................


ASDA to the rescue

Supermarkets' border raid on SNP booze ban


It will be like the Berlin Airlift
'once you can get men to believe in absurdities you can get them to commit atrocities' ....Voltaire
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby cheesemonster » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:29 am

I think this is pertinent:
Buckfast winery to be replaced
"It's hard to believe people think a real cow dying on film doesn't look like a real cow dying on film"

http://flickr.com/photos/dreamlogic
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby Lone Groover » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:27 am

A couple of items noted on the BBC Scotland web news....

Alcohol plans to suffer 'defeat'


MSPs are expected to back a parliamentary motion against raising the age limit for buying alcohol in shops.


Delay urged on teenage sex reform


Ministers are urged to delay plans to reform the law on teenage sex


So go on kids Drink & Shag yourselves silly - The Man says it's ok !!!! :mrgreen:

God bless this country !!!!
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Re: Just say no ! I dare ye !

Postby Lone Groover » Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:10 pm

"Work hard, Rock Hard, Eat hard, Sleep hard, Grow big, Wear glasses if you need 'em"
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby Mori » Mon Oct 06, 2008 1:20 am

One-quarter of licensed premises ‘may be throwing in towel’

Up to one-quarter of liquor licence holders in some cities may be throwing in the towel rather than entering Scotland's incoming licensing system, new figures show.
According to research collated from licensing boards in 29 of Scotland's 32 local authorities, some 585 licensed premises out of a total of 3522 which should have lodged applications by the March deadline did not.


‘Alcohol is a major problem in our society’

Their study found that of those questioned last year, eight out of 10 of those who used weapons had been under the influence of alcohol at the time. One-quarter of them were on Diazepam. Heroin barely gets a look in
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby onyirtodd » Mon Oct 06, 2008 11:03 am

onyirtodd wrote:
Roxburgh wrote:
lynnski wrote:For fuck's sake, I do not have a control problem, no matter how you try and word it. You are the one projecting an opinion of me without ever having met me. I am perfectly entitled to my opinion on any matter, and if it differs from yours, than that's when debate and discussion start, not name calling and abuse. Try and think about binge drinking for what it is, which is after all what this topic is about. Nobody's saying people shouldn't be free to go to the pub or buy themselves a bottle of wine or whatever, we're saying binge drinking is a serious problem in Scotland and peoples' attitudes to drinking in general need to change. If the price of booze is put up a bit, then perhaps it might make people say to themselves, 'can I really afford that bottle of wine tonight?' instead of just buying booze whenever they feel like it, to hell with the effect it'll have on their health.


Exactly the point I am trying to make. Your argument is a "blunt instrument" which fails to go to the root of the problem and which targets all drinkers ... reasonable or binge ... alike.


Relax Roxburgh. It's SNP policy and so, by definition, it isn't going to happen :wink:


And indeed it didn't :D
238 to 127. All in all a good afternoon's work
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby Mori » Sun Nov 09, 2008 12:56 am

Shocking rise in pupils banned for drinking

HUNDREDS OF Scottish children are being suspended from school every year for drinking alcohol, and campaigners are calling for better education and support for young people suffering from alcohol abuse.

During a parliamentary question and answer session Richard Baker, Labour MSP for North East Scotland, asked for the number of children temporarily excluded from school for alcohol abuse. He said the figures were "shocking".

Almost 330 children were disciplined within Argyll and Bute and Highland councils, with 30 and 33 pupils excluded respectively, making them the councils with the highest number of suspensions for alcohol misuse. Aberdeenshire and Glasgow City councils followed with 25 and 22 temporary exclusions.
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby Its_a_gamp » Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:45 pm

The problem isn't any worse than it's been for years, the figures are only up because they have started to do something about the drink problem in schools!
Due to cutbacks, the light at the end of the tunnel is off until further notice!
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby Josef » Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:18 pm

Its_a_gamp wrote:The problem isn't any worse than it's been for years, the figures are only up because they have started to do something about the drink problem in schools!


Yes, I've always found that slightly annoying, and an example of why neither crime statistics nor newspaper headlines (particularly the latter) should be taken on trust. Whenever an initiative is launched to combat previously-ignored behaviour x, it invariably results in a 'x crime doubles in a year shocker!' headline.

Progress presented as going to hell in a handcart.
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