Binge Drinking

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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby draugelis » Sun Aug 23, 2009 3:56 pm

onyirtodd wrote:Having encouraged Scottish Enterprise to pay BDO Stoy Hayward £75,000 for "an independent consultants' report into Diageo's plans in Scotland"; East Ayrshire Council has decided it doesn't like what they've been told so they're doing their own :roll:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/gla ... 215873.stm


Are you suggesting they (the council) should stand back and watch jobs disappear out of their area because a report prepared for a quango by accountants who couldn't give a toss about the area says so? Then again, perhaps you consider the loss of local jobs to East Ayrshire is a well deserved penalty for the populace having the audacity to vote in a (minority) SNP council.... :roll:
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby onyirtodd » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:06 pm

draugelis wrote:
onyirtodd wrote:Having encouraged Scottish Enterprise to pay BDO Stoy Hayward £75,000 for "an independent consultants' report into Diageo's plans in Scotland"; East Ayrshire Council has decided it doesn't like what they've been told so they're doing their own :roll:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/gla ... 215873.stm


Are you suggesting they (the council) should stand back and watch jobs disappear out of their area because a report prepared for a quango by accountants who couldn't give a toss about the area says so? Then again, perhaps you consider the loss of local jobs to East Ayrshire is a well deserved penalty for the populace having the audacity to vote in a (minority) SNP council.... :roll:


No, I've already explained what I believe ought to be done (and probably will be done). I was merely pointing out the stupidity of ordering an independent report and then binning it 'cos you don't like what it says. That's the sort of thing that gives local politicians a bad name.

East Ayrshire has an SNP administration? Doesn't surprise me.
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby Josef » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:13 pm

The study apparently says it could cost Diageo millions to stay in Kilmarnock, rather than close the plant and open a new one in Leven, Fife.

A report detailing alternatives to closure is to be presented to Diageo.

[...]The BDO report was commissioned by Scottish Enterprise at a cost of £75,000 - it has not been made public because of commercially sensitive information contained within it, but it is believed it said the rationale behind the drinks conglomerate's plans appeared "sensible".


At least that's progress of a kind. A friend of mine tried to get funding from Scottish Enterprise a few years ago to open up a manufacturing facility in Scotland. The meeting apparently went along the lines of :

SE person : So, you'll be doing the product manufacture in the Far East?
No, Dumbarton.
SE person : No, I mean, you'll be sourcing the actual manufacture offshore?
No, Dumbarton.
SE person : I don't think you quite understood the question. Where will you be making the actual product?
Dumbarton.
SE person : Sorry, what do you mean?
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby draugelis » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:20 pm

onyirtodd wrote:No, I've already explained what I believe ought to be done (and probably will be done). I was merely pointing out the stupidity of ordering an independent report and then binning it 'cos you don't like what it says. That's the sort of thing that gives local politicians a bad name.

East Ayrshire has an SNP administration? Doesn't surprise me.


So far as I can see from the article, and as quoted in Josef's contribution "...The BDO report was commissioned by Scottish Enterprise at a cost of £75,000...." so why shouldn't the locally elected council seek further advice to compare to that provided to and by a quango?

I'm suprised a person with your evident knowledge of the Scottish political scene wasn't aware that East Ayrshire was a minority SNP council.... :wink:
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby onyirtodd » Sun Aug 23, 2009 4:27 pm

draugelis wrote:
onyirtodd wrote:No, I've already explained what I believe ought to be done (and probably will be done). I was merely pointing out the stupidity of ordering an independent report and then binning it 'cos you don't like what it says. That's the sort of thing that gives local politicians a bad name.

East Ayrshire has an SNP administration? Doesn't surprise me.


So far as I can see from the article, and as quoted in Josef's contribution "...The BDO report was commissioned by Scottish Enterprise at a cost of £75,000...." so why shouldn't the locally elected council seek further advice to compare to that provided to and by a quango?


It looks as if they're not 'seeking further advice' - they're writing their own report.

draugelis wrote:I'm suprised a person with your evident knowledge of the Scottish political scene wasn't aware that East Ayrshire was a minority SNP council.... :wink:


I have already arranged political education classes :wink:
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby draugelis » Sun Aug 23, 2009 5:25 pm

onyirtodd wrote:It looks as if they're not 'seeking further advice' - they're writing their own report.


Fair point and presumably they'll draw on information prepared by their own officials and "consultants".

I note the BBC article mentions that the report won't be made public however Scotland On Sunday appears to shed a little bit more light on it, commenting that "It is understood that the Scottish Government is working on proposals from a report commissioned by Scottish Enterprise from the consultants BDO Stoy Hayward that would offer Diageo a greenfield site in Kilmarnock to build a bottling plant in an attempt to keep jobs in the town." (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/bu ... 5579572.jp) I hope that these jobs are retained in Ayrshire but the comments from Diageo's "man in Scotland" elsewhere in the article does not augur well thus both the SE and/or the East Ayrshire reports need to be thorough and very persuasive.
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby onyirtodd » Sun Aug 23, 2009 7:05 pm

draugelis wrote:
onyirtodd wrote:It looks as if they're not 'seeking further advice' - they're writing their own report.


Fair point and presumably they'll draw on information prepared by their own officials and "consultants".

I note the BBC article mentions that the report won't be made public however Scotland On Sunday appears to shed a little bit more light on it, commenting that "It is understood that the Scottish Government is working on proposals from a report commissioned by Scottish Enterprise from the consultants BDO Stoy Hayward that would offer Diageo a greenfield site in Kilmarnock to build a bottling plant in an attempt to keep jobs in the town." (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/bu ... 5579572.jp) I hope that these jobs are retained in Ayrshire but the comments from Diageo's "man in Scotland" elsewhere in the article does not augur well thus both the SE and/or the East Ayrshire reports need to be thorough and very persuasive.


At the risk of repeating myself - the reports don't need to be thorough and very persuasive. Someone needs to ask Diageo how much public money they want to stick around and then someone has to decide whether or not to pay it.
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby hungryjoe » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:59 pm

onyirtodd wrote:
draugelis wrote:
onyirtodd wrote:No, I've already explained what I believe ought to be done (and probably will be done). I was merely pointing out the stupidity of ordering an independent report and then binning it 'cos you don't like what it says. That's the sort of thing that gives local politicians a bad name.

East Ayrshire has an SNP administration? Doesn't surprise me.


So far as I can see from the article, and as quoted in Josef's contribution "...The BDO report was commissioned by Scottish Enterprise at a cost of £75,000...." so why shouldn't the locally elected council seek further advice to compare to that provided to and by a quango?


It looks as if they're not 'seeking further advice' - they're writing their own report.

I've had extensive dealings with East Ayrshire Council, and at first thought that the cooncilors were all thick cunts. It soon dawned on me that the worthy cooncilors made decisions on what their employees told them, and that rarely had little to do with facts. Cooncil employees lived in little fiefdoms, and their only concern was to enlarge their fiefdoms. I won't name names, as someone seems a little nervous of libel in another thread (no such crime in Scotland anyway). So, I caught one of the cooncil employees, in a bare faced lie, in front of around a dozen people, including 5 cooncilors. The effect of this lie potentially affected the livelihoods of over 500 people. Sod all was done about it.

It was a Labour Cooncil then.
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby hungryjoe » Sun Aug 23, 2009 11:00 pm

onyirtodd wrote:
draugelis wrote:
onyirtodd wrote:No, I've already explained what I believe ought to be done (and probably will be done). I was merely pointing out the stupidity of ordering an independent report and then binning it 'cos you don't like what it says. That's the sort of thing that gives local politicians a bad name.

East Ayrshire has an SNP administration? Doesn't surprise me.


So far as I can see from the article, and as quoted in Josef's contribution "...The BDO report was commissioned by Scottish Enterprise at a cost of £75,000...." so why shouldn't the locally elected council seek further advice to compare to that provided to and by a quango?


It looks as if they're not 'seeking further advice' - they're writing their own report.


I've had extensive dealings with East Ayrshire Council, and at first thought that the cooncilors were all thick cunts. It soon dawned on me that the worthy cooncilors made decisions on what their employees told them, and that rarely had little to do with facts. Cooncil employees lived in little fiefdoms, and their only concern was to enlarge their fiefdoms. I won't name names, as someone seems a little nervous of libel in another thread (no such crime in Scotland anyway). So, I caught one of the cooncil employees, in a bare faced lie, in front of around a dozen people, including 5 cooncilors. The effect of this lie potentially affected the livelihoods of over 500 people. Sod all was done about it.

It was a Labour Cooncil then.
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby Dexter St. Clair » Mon Aug 24, 2009 6:54 am

maybe you should have told them twice.
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby onyirtodd » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:05 am

hungryjoe wrote:
I've had extensive dealings with East Ayrshire Council, and at first thought that the cooncilors were all thick cunts. It soon dawned on me that the worthy cooncilors made decisions on what their employees told them, and that rarely had little to do with facts. Cooncil employees lived in little fiefdoms, and their only concern was to enlarge their fiefdoms. I won't name names, as someone seems a little nervous of libel in another thread (no such crime in Scotland anyway). So, I caught one of the cooncil employees, in a bare faced lie, in front of around a dozen people, including 5 cooncilors. The effect of this lie potentially affected the livelihoods of over 500 people. Sod all was done about it.

It was a Labour Cooncil then.


Dragging things off at a slight tangent if I may. I notice the 'there are too many local authorities in Scotland' argument is being resurrected in some quarters http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8215797.stm

Any thoughts? Loss of supposedly local accountability versus considerable cost savings?

Now that Procurement Scotland http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Gover ... ment/npcoe is up and running well does every local authority need a purchasing department?
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby draugelis » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:19 am

[quote="onyirtodd]At the risk of repeating myself - the reports don't need to be thorough and very persuasive. Someone needs to ask Diageo how much public money they want to stick around and then someone has to decide whether or not to pay it.[/quote]

Far be it from me to suggest that you repeat yourself Onny but I couldn't find your post where you proposed just asking Diageo how much they want to stay. I would have thought more structured and reasoned proposals would have been more effective.
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby onyirtodd » Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:47 am

onyirtodd wrote:There's a lot of political posturing about Diageo.

To imagine Scottish Enterprise will find a business case where Diageo couldn't is fantasy UNLESS a whole bunch of public money is injected. At some point somebody is going to have to do a cost/ benefit analysis and either pay up or not. The sooner that's done the sooner the workers will learn their fate, one way or the other.
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby hungryjoe » Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:31 pm

Dexter St. Clair wrote:maybe you should have told them twice.

:oops:
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Re: Binge Drinking

Postby floweredpig » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:21 pm

Anyone fancy a pint?
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