Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans

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Hurricane Katrina, New Orleans

Postby Apollo » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:38 pm

Surprised no-one's mentioned this given the aftermath.

I was surprised to find that I was hearing something that passed for sense from Bush when he noted that those commenting negatively on the operations there had no appreciation for the scale of the problem without being on the ground there.

This was amplified when I saw the Rev. Jesse Jackson play his card and jump on the bandwaggon to voice his criticism of the operation, like he has any idea what he's talking about. I'd like to call him a fool, but fool's aren't dangerous, just stupid.

What really appals me though is the actions of the scum that sees the disaster as nothing more than an opportunity to get out there and spend their time looting, robbing, attacking others, fire-raising and shooting at the rescuers.

I know where I'd be, and a big 'Thank You' to our government for making it next to impossible for law-abiding citizens to hold firearms, while the criminals can basically suit theselves without restriction.

For an idea of what's happened in New Orleans over the past few days, have a read from the start of:

http://www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor
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Postby Vladimir » Sat Sep 03, 2005 12:48 pm

This just shows America up for the unequal and rascist country that it is. Who was left behind as the whites fled in their SUV's :x Im not giving a single euro for this, its time the rich in America payed what they owe, they are perfectly able to pay for this, dont they take 1/4 of all this world produces? ...
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Postby dazza » Sat Sep 03, 2005 1:46 pm

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It's black and white

Postby Dexter St. Clair » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:14 pm

There ain't no denying that america is a country divided by wealth and by race. And not just in the south either. The majority of the people who stayed in New Orleans are Black. Many of them are poor. That does not mean to say there ain't no whites suffering in New Orleans and there ain't no poor whites either.

Some white people and a few blacks too have a problem with black politicians even when they share the same politics. After accusing the Bush administration of racism as few of the people named as being charge of the rescue operation are black Jackson went on to criticise Bush. "The civil rights leader said the flooding that caused thousands to be trapped inside the city was caused by a lack of federal funding for its levee system and hurricane planning. Jackson says the resulting tragedy has largely hit New Orleans' black residents, because they were too poor to evacuate before the storm hit."

The Black middle class may or may not have welcomed the tax cutting features of the republican programme.
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Postby Pgcc93 » Sat Sep 03, 2005 5:41 pm

I spoke to my Bro in law in the States two days ago and he said the media on Wednesday were reporting only 80 deaths from the 3 states affected as a result of the hurricane while over here in the UK and the rest of the real world reports were in the thousands.

It would appear that the increased price of gas is the big news story in middle America in the aftermath of the hurricane not the suffering of those Southern'ers. :evil:
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Postby Apollo » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:26 am

Can't believe I'm advertising Google, but...

Go to Google Maps Beta and enter New Orleans into the Search box.

You'll see the area with selectable satellite or map view, and an additional RED button named Katrina, click on this for current satellite images of the area, down to street level.

The images show the detail of the levees, with the water pouring in.

At this stage in the process, I think long term memories should be developed, and all the polticians and media that had nothing better to contribute than criticism should be remembered and paid back when they go touting for support in future.

This is a time when they should be seen to work together, not make the most of the opportunity to be seen.

There seems to be a failure to comprehend the scale of the area affected, getting help to New Orleans etc. is not like sending some troops from London to Manchester. The affected area is on a par with the area of mainland Britain, with most of its tranport, power and communication networks largely trashed.

EDIT

As usual, found an alternative, with some very large, detailed current satellite images:

http://www.globexplorer.com/disasterimages/

http://ngs.woc.noaa.gov/katrina/
Last edited by Apollo on Sun Sep 04, 2005 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Fossil » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:22 am

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Bum tit tit bum tit tit play yer hairy banjo
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Postby Bex Bissell » Fri Sep 09, 2005 2:45 pm

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Oh, the humanity!
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Postby maZe » Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:18 am

Wow. I rarely feel like this but I think I need to rectify a few things here...

Why people (including Rev. Jackson) blames Bush :
-Sept. 9-11 : he was on site 3 hours after the buildings came down.
-New Orleans : he stayed in his ranch for 2 days before getting his finger off his nose and actually starting to think about doing something.
-Bush names his friends to key-positions everywhere in the Federal administration. After Sept. 9-11, the new NSA (National Security Agency) was created and the FEMA (Fed. Emergency Measure Agency) was merged and moved as a sub-agency of the newly-created NSA. This limited in a very important way the actions of the FEMA, plus, a new man was named by Bush to lead the FEMA - a guy that was, in his previous job, a racing-horses stables manager. M. Brown went from cleaning horse shit to being responsible of all fed. emergency measures, which made him, a great friend of Bush but not a very qualified person. He has been fired this week.
in 2002 and 2003, the state of Louisiana asked for federal funding to make the cement dikes higher and stronger. State leaders were scared the dikes were'nt high enough, were getting old and insecure and they also asked for funding to modernize the drain systems in New Orleans. Bush refused all funding explaining that all the money needed to be spent on the "war on terror". This is one of the major reason why Louisiana people were pissed off at Bush.
-Not only Bush did a little tour over the city in his Air Force one four (FOUR!) days after, he did'nt even bothered to get out his big plane and come talk to New Orleans mayor, Ray Naggin. Bush did'nt sent the National Guard nor the Army in the first 3 days after the event.
-When Bush was first elected in the big ballot controversy, a special procedure was started at Congress by mostly latinos but also black Congressmen and women. They cried and asked for ONE extra congress member to support their motion to refuse to reconize Bush as President. None, nobody, came forward. They never liked Bush. Bush has made quite a good number of racists comments in the past, especially regarding black communities.

Also,
-The body count is still low because corpses are floating. Wait until the city dries up in a month or two and then, and only then, we'll see the body count go up. Also, remember that this event will become very dramatic when the body count surpasses 3000 - the legendary of deaths on Sept 9-11. People will then questionned Bush's war on terror.
-Most people that were looting were simple citizens trying to get something to eat. Remember all was closed. They were abandonned for days and they needed to eat. So when you're dying of hunger and you're standing in front of a closed grocery store - what do you do?
-Gaz prices did go up but they started to go down. (1,30$ CAN / litre) Lots of medias are now showing how much more expansive it is in Europe. But then again, in Europe, there is much more hybrids and diesel options.
-Most of the guns were ceased in Louisiana and Denver.

Bush is not liked in North America. He's not liked in Louisiana, he's not liked anywhere. This is just one more occasion for all to say that he's a jerk. And it's not a coincidence you see Senator Hillary Clinton helping in Denver. She will be candidate for the next presidential election...

ah! and finally - remember! The Bush Family... they are in the oil business. So they are very happy and excited to see the $$$ of oil and gaz go up. It means more profit for them!
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Postby Vladimir » Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:40 am

n site 3 hours after the buildings came down.
Thats actually not bad...considering he was hiding in a bunker 8O
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Postby Apollo » Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:15 am

So there's no truth in the story that those in charge in fact had the cash to upgrade the levees, but chose not to (what did they do with the money?), and were to the fore in actively bad-mouthing Bush, FEMA etc. before any proper review could formed, with the aim of diverting attention from themsleves?

I'd give you a reference for this, but I only came across the tail end of the item on a Radio 4 while channel hopping last week
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Postby Apollo » Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:27 pm

Maybe Radio 4 weren't too far off the mark, the following were posted by someone in nearby Alabama, and please note, I'm only posting the content for info, so no point shouting at me if you disagree:
Amoung other issues ... before the hurrican New Orleans had a very corrupt city government (with over 50 cops found dirty, and 2 of whom are on death row). There were a lot of issues with the city that's not been brought out. The city suffered with having one of the highest crime rates in the country. There were many issues that you're definatly not seeing on CNN. The New York Times accused a Fox News anchor man for "pushing a US Solider" out of the way. Problem is, and the video backs it up, it never happened. The FNC anchor was on the other side of the woman, and the man who was on the side the soldier was on told him he didn't need any help. Needless to say, the Times didn't retract the article ... they're being sued.

I should also point out that there was money long before the hurricane hit meant to go to the Army Corps of Engineers that DIDN'T ... it weant to the state governments pet building projects.

There were several proposals to build up the levy system better ... it was blocked by people that "wanted to protect wildlife". There were several issues to either reinforce or build up the levy system, but they failed for these reasons. If you really want to blame anyone ... you can start by blaming that states government.

A black reverend said it best (on FNC's Hannity and Colms) when he said what they need is help -- not people wanting the camera as the other black leaders in the community are doing. This guy has been there for days working around the clock ...

Trust me, the black leaders you're hearing about, O.B., they don't represent the majority of this country. West (who blamed the president on being mean to black people) was boo'd when he got up to sing at a football game last night. And as I said on the other thread, there's about to be a new set of black leaders ... and they're going to be like Martin Luther King Jr. -- who talked about peace and love -- not the ones we have now who try to keep the black and white people seperated with their hate speach.
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Postby maZe » Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:27 pm

Vladimir wrote:
n site 3 hours after the buildings came down.
Thats actually not bad...considering he was hiding in a bunker 8O


He was'nt hiding in a bunker, he was in a first grade classroom of an elementary school. He kept on reading to the kids for 14 minutes after learning what was happening. He did'nt know how to react. He then, jumped back into his Air Force One and kept on flying over the States, as the security procedure requires it in case of an attack. Vice-President of the States was at the same time taken away with 1/2 of the cabinet and moved to the bunker at Camp David.

Separating Pres. and Vice-Pres. is standard procedure in case of an attack. But Bush was never in any bunker. Tons of media footage confirm this.

I think you should rent Micheal Moore's F-911 movie...
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Postby Vladimir » Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:40 pm

Ive seen it already, I didnt care much about the timing really. Even still, if he was at the World Trade Centre site ten minutes after they fell it would have made no difference hes only a man, he cant bring people back to life, do you really think his smirking face would have lifted the spirits of people in America ::):
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Postby maZe » Sun Sep 11, 2005 3:42 pm

Apollo, I get your point.

But this corruption and racism situation also applies to most southern states. Since 1991 if I remember correctly with the very public beating of a black guy on camera, well, racist incidents are regular in the southern states. And cops are more and more corrupted too - that's everywhere, not only in New Orleans.

But I don't think the fact that your mayor and cops are corrupted should delay vital aids to taxpayers in case of a disaster like that.

Also, I know for a fact that funding was refused for the dike. New Orleans never had the money for such a project. This is of federal envergure and as you mentionned, the Army ingeneers corps is federal. Nothing to do with New Orleans or even the state. Funding was refused by the fed. You can find this in the Congress session transcripts.

And as for journalists, well, as a former journalist myself, ethic is now going down the drain in the profession and is replaced with $$$ and commercial interest of monopolistic corporations that owned all the medias. Don't believe what they say, investigate yourself, find first-hand information, if possible with photos backing the info. That's all I can say. That's what I did - talked to 6 contacts in New Orleans and Louisiana right now.
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