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[Josef]

Band fall out with promoter over payment?

New-fangled nonsense. Chuck Berry would never have let that sort of thing happen.

[hungryjoe]

When middle class lads fall out in the Glasgow Music scene

Neither one comes out of that well, but the band sound like cock-ends. Maybe they'd prefer a pay-to-play system?

The band do indeed sound like cock ends, so too do the venue managers.

They ARE exploiting young bands.

Any venue I play in pays me a 3 figure sum or I'm not getting out of bed - that's me - solo.

Here's how it works:
the venue either book through an agency, who should have done some research (send the ambulance, I can't stop laughing), or they do some research themselves, they then book an act who should be appropriate for their venue. If they do this on a regular basis, there's a fair chance (there are other factors) that their venue will regularly attract patrons.
If the venue book shite acts, it's their own fault for not doing research.
The whole point of booking acts is to bring in drinkers. The venue conveniently forget about this when they are blowing their trumpet about how fair they are to bands.
They are falling over themselves to say how much they pay for D.J.s, someone please tell me what that has to do with bands.

Band fall out with promoter over payment?

New-fangled nonsense. Chuck Berry would never have let that sort of thing happen.

Chuck has demanded cash up front for decades. One wonders at his distrust of promoters

[mrlipring]

It's a club night. The venue doesn't organise it, the guys in charge of the club night do the organising, getting bands, djs, promotion etc. They hire the venue. Whether they get a cut of bar takings or not I'm not sure, but they get a cut of ticket revenue.

Bands early on in the night, DJs later on. People come for the bands and leave, skip the bands and come for the DJs or stay for the whole night.

Obviously anyone coming early and leaving before the DJs start were there for the bands. The bands get their share of that.

Anyone coming after the bands finish aren't there for the bands. The bands don't get a cut of that.

If the band wants paid, they need to bring a decent crowd before the bands bit of the night finishes.

Seems pretty fair to me.

[Glesga_Steve]

No pets allowed

[HollowHorn]

Chuck Berry would never have let that sort of thing happen.

Very true, he'd have been too busy getting a blow job, mid sarny.

[Doorstop]

Sounds like a great way to earn a crust .. where do I sign up for some of that?

[hungryjoe]

It's a club night. The venue doesn't organise it, the guys in charge of the club night do the organising, getting bands, djs, promotion etc. They hire the venue. Whether they get a cut of bar takings or not I'm not sure, but they get a cut of ticket revenue.

Bands early on in the night, DJs later on. People come for the bands and leave, skip the bands and come for the DJs or stay for the whole night.

Obviously anyone coming early and leaving before the DJs start were there for the bands. The bands get their share of that.

Anyone coming after the bands finish aren't there for the bands. The bands don't get a cut of that.

If the band wants paid, they need to bring a decent crowd before the bands bit of the night finishes.

Seems pretty fair to me.

It doesn't matter how you cut it. Bands are having the pish ripped out of them. Young bands are always encouraged to think of the "exposure", and many fall for it. There's always some greedy cunt willing to try making money off of their back.
Here's a wee reality for you - try going round to McCormick's Music and ask how much to hire a decent bass, a couple of decent guitars, maybe a keyboard, amplification for them and, if the venue doesn't supply it, a drum kit. Several hundred pounds would have to change hands. Next, you need some one to play them. 50 quid for a band is a fucking joke.
Greedy cunts have been conning young bands by telling them they have to bring bodies/sell tickets. this is a huge cop out which enables venues/promoters to put on a night with minimal expense. If you move a wee step up the ladder, this just doesn't happen.
It might seem fair to you, I suspect you don't know too much about it. It doesn't seem fair to me - I've been gigging for 43 years and suspect I know a lot more about it than you do.

[mrlipring]

Why should a band get paid when they've brought nobody to the gig? If you can't convince your mates to come to see your band, you're not much cop.

Three bands play, they bring ten people between them, bringing in, say, 50 quid at the door. They should get 50 quid each? The way this guy does it, you get a share of the door proportional to how many people you brought through the door.

I'm sure promoters do exploit bands, and I'm sure your knowledge is all-encompassing, but I'm looking at it from a logical perspective. Make the promoter no money, make no money yourself. I fail to see how that's unfair.

[hungryjoe]

Chuck Berry would never have let that sort of thing happen.

Very true, he'd have been too busy getting a blow job, mid sarny.

Aw son! Can't I at least finish my sandwich? Rock and roll.

[hungryjoe]

Why should a band get paid when they've brought nobody to the gig? If you can't convince your mates to come to see your band, you're not much cop.

Three bands play, they bring ten people between them, bringing in, say, 50 quid at the door. They should get 50 quid each? The way this guy does it, you get a share of the door proportional to how many people you brought through the door.

I'm sure promoters do exploit bands, and I'm sure your knowledge is all-encompassing, but I'm looking at it from a logical perspective. Make the promoter no money, make no money yourself. I fail to see how that's unfair.

You don't get it.

Bands which don't bring people through the door shouldn't be employed. What you are touting is basically a throwing mud at the wall system of getting entertainment into a venue - some will bring people and it's self financing - except it isn't - it's being financed by shite wee bands.

The venue management or the promoter should be scouring the earth looking for good bands who will draw a crowd. The system you prefer is doing a disservice to the bands (who may well be shite) who are not getting paid, or who get washers. You have three shite bands who maybe bring in 40 people, yet there are probably dozens of decent bands lying idle on that night.
The problem with bands bringing their mates is that after a few months of paying to see your pal's (possibly shite) band, you get fed up with the band and with paying to see them every other week and stop going.

Call me old fashioned but if a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well - if you're doing it well you should get paid well.

Paying a sound man 70 quid while paying a band 50 quid is fucking ludicrous beyond description.

My knowledge is almost all-encompassing

Don't get me started on Battle of the band nights or "charity" nights.

[Dexter St. Clair]

I've forwarded your details to Pin Ups.

They're financially better off if they just ran it as a club but some promoters like the idea of having bands. They think they'll discover the next oasis. The pin ups guys have been organising club nights for a good few years. They really are not in in it for the money. If they were they would be in a bigger venue without the bands. Most of their bands are quite clear on how money is divvied up.

The pubs that pay decent money for bands include Blackfriars, McChuills and The Clutha. It would not be that difficult for bands to organise their own nights and some do but most others get roped into selling tickets to their friends and family and let a promoter organise it. I'm not aware of many bands breaking out of the pay to play circuit but please enlighten me.

[mrlipring]

You don't get it.

Bands which don't bring people through the door shouldn't be employed.

How are you to know whether they will before you employ them?

What you are touting is basically a throwing mud at the wall system of getting entertainment into a venue - some will bring people and it's self financing - except it isn't - it's being financed by shite wee bands.

According to what that guy says, he's had some relatively well known Glasgow bands play it. The kind of bands who would bring people. Why not give new bands a chance to be on the bill with these (similar in style) bigger bands, give them the chance to get a bit more of a following, and the chance - if they want to take it and put a bit of effort into bringing people along - of making money too?

The venue management or the promoter should be scouring the earth looking for good bands who will draw a crowd. The system you prefer is doing a disservice to the bands (who may well be shite) who are not getting paid, or who get washers. You have three shite bands who maybe bring in 40 people, yet there are probably dozens of decent bands lying idle on that night.

Well that club night seems to be doing OK, so it seems they are mostly bringing in good bands. Like the guy says, they get bands coming back again and again so most are fine with the situation.

The problem with bands bringing their mates is that after a few months of paying to see your pal's (possibly shite) band, you get fed up with the band and with paying to see them every other week and stop going.

hopefully by which time the band's half decent and can attract people they don't know personally.

Call me old fashioned but if a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well - if you're doing it well you should get paid well.

Paying a sound man 70 quid while paying a band 50 quid is fucking ludicrous beyond description.

Part of the band's job is to bring along a crowd. They didn't do it well. They didn't get paid.

I agree that paying the sound man 70 quid seems a lot compared to a 3, 4 or more piece band getting 50 quid. I dunno if he's bringing his own kit for that money though. 23 quid per band and bringing his own kit, it seems a bit more reasonable. It's not like the sound guy gets publicity out of the gig. He's mostly ignored, at best blamed for bands sounding shit.

[The Egg Man]

...............
Call me old fashioned but if a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well - if you're doing it well you should get paid well.

Paying a sound man 70 quid while paying a band 50 quid is fucking ludicrous beyond description.

..............................

Whilst those two statements aren't entirely incompatible it's worth pointing out that a good band with a poor soundman will sound like shit whilst a good soundman can work wonders for a poor band. The soundman's job is worth doing well and s/he should get paid well.

[Josef]

...............
Call me old fashioned but if a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well - if you're doing it well you should get paid well.

Paying a sound man 70 quid while paying a band 50 quid is fucking ludicrous beyond description.

..............................

Whilst those two statements aren't entirely incompatible it's worth pointing out that a good band with a poor soundman will sound like shit whilst a good soundman can work wonders for a poor band. The soundman's job is worth doing well and s/he should get paid well.

Yes.

Additionally, the soundman is generally a professional, who should accordingly be paid the going rate for his work.The bands in this case are aspiring amateurs who are, or at least should be, looking to build up a fanbase.

Which is where the difference lies in your case Joe, I think.

From what I can make of your posts regarding gigs on here, you're essentially an entertainer - giving folk what they like rather than trying to persuade folk to like what you do - which puts you into the category of the aforementioned sound man. In which circumstance, it's an apples and oranges case.

[HollowHorn]

Incoming!!!!!