Identity Cards

[Apollo]

Flashback from my archive, actual 1947 ID card (it's real, personal data has been deleted).

Exterior


Interior

[Return of UUU]

No need for ID cards as the new system of passport application/renewal is under way and will be largely self-financing due to the projected cost of £85 for a new passport which will include an interview at one of the 70 regional offices planned.

There is also the new, separate "Supplementary Information" form, which has some mandatory fields, and some optional ones. However, since the guidelines are on the reverse of the form, most people won't read them. Not only that, but the mandatory fields are all included in the main application form, and so are duplicates. The optional fields include bank account details, and the whole lot is sent back to the passport agency in a clearly marked envelope. If ever there was a document that actively encouraged identity theft, then this is it - if you got an email asking you for your bank account details, you would (hopefully!) think it was some scam, and ignore it. With the one piece of paper, your bank account can be emptied, a new driving licence can be issued and a "new" person can then pretend to be you.
The claim is that the information will be used to verify you "better", and will be passed to external agencies, like Equifax (a credit reference company, not an identity guarantor).

In a year of so, there will be a big claim that "90% filled in all the supplementary information, so 90% are in favour of the new ID card". Totally flawed logic, I know, but it is what will be used. Equally, by having this information as a totally separate form from the rest of the application, it is possible that the Passport Agency has been leant on to provide this carte blanche.

A very slippery slope to having ID cards through the back door.

[turbozutek]

Perhaps our paranoid law makers / politicians need some:





Chris...

[Return of UUU]

Tonight 08/04/05 on ITV:

Tonight with Trevor McDonald - 8.00pm

the `chip and pin' credit card system, which was designed to combat fraud

Of course, it is a solution to the wrong problem. If someone looks over your shoulder while you key in your PIN, then picks your pocket (both very low-tech type occurrences), then they can buy anything they like until you report the card stolen, as no signatures are required (OK, so many shops didn't even check the signatures, but enough did).

An analogy:
Some years ago, a car manufacturer, whose models were stolen a disproportionately high number of times, announced that they were introducing new, high-security locks, with several gazillion permutations.
However, this did nothing to reduce the number of thefts, as most semi-competent car thieves operated the door catch by by-passing the lock (non-competent thieves just smashed a window).
In other words, the solution was for the wrong problem.

So here, chip and pin does not address the problem of fraudulent use through card theft (in fact, the lack of signatures makes it easier), while trying to address the lesser problem of a copied card (yes, people did copy credit cards onto things like Tesco Clubcard blanks, but it should be pretty easy to spot such a forgery)

Chip and Pin also shifts the onus onto the retailer, rather than the bank. In the past, the tab for fraudulent use was picked up by the banks. Now, it is supposedly such a foolproof system (yeah, right), that it is the retailer who now picks up the tab. Hmmm.

[Return of UUU]

On the "those with nothing to hide have nothing to fear", I would go on myself, but this blog entry says it all:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/ican/A2561834

[Alchemist]

If it had not gone the way it went, we would have had to show
papers to the guard on the street corner with his KAR98 rifle

Never forget those brave souls that fell in the east, and sadly very forgotten for the sake of freedom. Was not very happy about the way in
which the "western allies" were leading the rememberance 10 years ago and the exclusion of the brave "reds". Was talking to 2 men that had
fought in the 44 in the German heartland and they were
disgusted about the lack or rememberance for fellow brothers that
layed down their lives for the sake of freedom.

The greatest battle of 1943 was not fought in the air or the Mediterranean. It was fought in and around Kursk from 5 to 12 July and proved to be the decisive battle of the war.’

It was the greatest tank battle in history, with 1500 tanks engaged on each side. The Soviet forces won a crushing victory. It opened the way for smashing blows by the Red Army right along the centre of the German defensive line. German historians play it down, because it was a battle in which the armoured divisions, pride of the Wehrmacht, were outmatched, tank for tank, man for man. So they treat it as part of a general affair they describe as ‘The Collapse of Army Group Centre.’

It was indeed a collapse, which ended in the taking of Berlin, begun with the decisive Red Army victory at Kursk.

What became clear as the Red Army drove towards Berlin was that, while the Western powers had found one excuse after another for not opening a second front - it was promised by Churchill and then Roosevelt in 1942 and 1943, by now it was perfectly clear that the Soviet forces could defeat Germany on their own.

That is what finally spurred Britain and America to launch Operation Overlord in June, 1944. Even then, the bulk of German forces were still deployed on the Eastern Front, and there were never more than 70 German divisions in the West, many battered and war weary from their hammering in the East. Many, too, ready to surrender to the West, afraid of retribution after their barbarism in the East.

Even those today 60 years on don't get the proper recognition

NO to ID cards, we don't want a return to that point in history...

[Apollo]

And the smell gets stronger.

With today's revival of the ID Card Bill, the Government now refuses to reveal the cost.

Why? (That's rhetorical, but feel free to comment )

[Vladimir]

Weve had ID cards in France for years. Nobody here thinks it is a really bad idea, and the place in no way resembles 1984. People in Britain just have this idea that they are super important 'individuals', who dont belong to mass society. And the media exploits this for all its worth, thats why a lot of people think they are a bad idea, along with the euro etc.

Don't worry about these cards, its just part of the War on Terror propaganda. You only have to worry if you plan to attack Westminster or fancy overthrowing government. Even then they would actually have to come up to you (come on you would be in hiding!) and ask to see your card.

Its when the telescreens arrive that you start to panic

[Dexter St. Clair]

Weve had ID cards in France for years. Nobody here thinks it is a really bad idea,

All of these nobodies wouldn't be white, middle class and middle aged, would they?

And what else could one spend billions of francs on given the choice?

[Apollo]

Don't worry about these cards, its just part of the War on Terror propaganda.

To bring back some past points:

If they are admitting to £5 billion (that's five thousand million pounds), let your imagination run on the final actual cost.

Government IT projects of considerably less innovative and unproven technology are typified by two things, overrun and failure.

Just to add insult, after having £5 billion of our taxes, we'll each still be expected to cough up £85 for the privilege of being in the system, and a lot more if we date lose the card.

They are pointless. Just as with gun legislation, there are no criminals, terrorists or whatever you want to call them that move through or use legitimate sources for their activities.

[Vladimir]

Whats the question on race or age anyway, I fail to see your point. The cards have nothing to do with racism etc. , white people are more likely to be questioned by police in general anyway. Why would the working class be affected more than the other classes Dexter.

Here I agree with you:

They are a block to immigration (so Scotland, remember, could do without them). The directors of top companies probably get paid 5 billion a year together, make them pay. They waste so much money on things as it is, just look at Pacific Quay, Elphinstone Place and all these other playgrounds. I dont see the point in them either, I was just trying show how they are useless anyway.

[Apollo]

Reference to Scotland reminds of a rather farcical inteview I saw just after the election.

Unfortunately, I only came in on the tail end of it, but there appeared to be Scottish MSP and a Goverment MP taking part.

The interviewer was trying to get a straight answer to a question posed by the Scot, namely as to whether or not ID legislation passed in the English Parliament would or would not be treated as Reserved Issue in Scotland, and if Scots would therfore need an ID card in England, but not Scotland (I'm assuming the MSP had said the Scottish Parliament wasn't going to tow the line, but don't know).

The interviewer never succeeded in getting an answer, as the MP kept on laughing and and changing the subject. I'll add that the MSP wanted an answer too, and was not laughing.

[Vladimir]

Yes, the Scottish Parliament is a joke, a 'local ' government they call it, without much real power. Full independance is needed for it to work properly. If Scotland ran itself it wouldn't need ID cards because A. Nobody would hate it enough to want to attack it and B. All immigrants would be welcome.

Unfortunately Scotland will always vote New Labour so this will never happen

[Dexter St. Clair]

Full independance is needed for it to work properly

Yes and when Scotland is independent all spelling will be correct and there will be pie in the sky.

In Scotland Vlad, if you are young and working class you have a higher chance of being stopped by the police. The introduction of ID cards will be a catch all reason to be stopped. I take it Les Gendarmes no longer throw blacks into the Seine due to the introduction of ID cards?

[Vladimir]

Ive said already Dexter, I dont see the point in them either, so I dont need 1000 reasons for why they are a bad thing. Many of 'Les Gendarmes' are black, maghreban whatever, its not the SS or whatever you imagine it is and these police usually patrol their own areas. Working class young people are more likely to be picked up and that is a social problem that should be solved instead of introducing these expensive cards.

What is it with spelling, this isn't your first mention