Madeleine

[Puro_pt]

The Portuguese Police is doing thorough searches in several apartments & villas across the Algarve in a discreet manner... (as i suspected, they never stopped!). This aparent calming was a manouvre to calm down the kidnapper

The police source said that the way the british media has been working helped them a lot by diverting attentions while they where doing the proper work!

I hate to say this but the british media are being used and manipulated... usually isn't the other way around?

[bluepeterno1]

the villa they are searching just now ,is not being done discreetly,they are tearing it to pieces ,dont quite see how manipulating the british press would lull the abductor into a false sense of security , when he is not in britain.

Bluepeterno1

[Puro_pt]

the villa they are searching just now ,is not being done discreetly,they are tearing it to pieces ,dont quite see how manipulating the british press would lull the abductor into a false sense of security , when he is not in britain.

Bluepeterno1

well, they have got their man haven't they?
One thing i assure you, no judge would allow that without strong evidence! Strange are the ways of the Portuguese Police, especially for the british
Regarding to the fooling, the british press is leading the news. Everybody goes behind them...

[bluepeterno1]

Hope to god they do have him Puro. and if he has harmed the wee girl i hope he burns in hell for eternity.Thank you for all your information from portugal . Regards Bluepeterno1

[hazy]

To be honest I get angrier each time I see his brother and sister n law on the news. I have done some stupid things in my life but to leave a child in a hotel room , for gods sake.
Another thing I question would an ordinary wee bin man or plumber from a less affluent family be getting the same British media attention.
Like everybody else I pray that the child is found safely. But I would pursue the parents through law if they in fact are proven to be negligent.

[bluepeterno1]

To be honest I get angrier each time I see his brother and sister n law on the news. I have done some stupid things in my life but to leave a child in a hotel room , for gods sake.
Another thing I question would an ordinary wee bin man or plumber from a less affluent family be getting the same British media attention.
Like everybody else I pray that the child is found safely. But I would pursue the parents through law if they in fact are proven to be negligent.

Where does it tell you he is from an affluent family . he is just an ordinary man from GLASGOW whom took his family on holiday and met with a tragedy . Sure in hindsight he should not have left his children alone ,but i go on holiday twice a year and see hundreds of people ,plumbers ,joiners ,brickies , doing the same thing .I do not condone it but it happens and as i have said before these parents will have a lifetime to regret it. Bluepeterno1

[dave2]

Look he may have been born in Glasgow, but he is living in England and has been for a while, so I'm not sure quite why the Scottish press have got such a hold of it - slow news week?

Equally, the blanket coverage is starting to get on my nerves a wee bit - by all means report on major developments, but BBC News 24 filming them live walking to church?????? It is arguable that well controlled media coverage can create interest, leads and maintain vigilance and awareness amongst the population, but saturation coverage and the hi-jacking of Parliament and social events such as the fun run seemed to be a little OTT. Of course everyone wants her found safe and well, and of course people are thinking of the family, but we are not doing it 24/7, we have lives to lead, and I;m not sure we need to openly show our support by wearing a ribbon or whatever.

As for the normal guy vs middle class....well he is a Consultant married to a GP, which means his income now probably makes him middle class, his routes were Clydeside, so i guess that makes him working or lower middle class - but the important thing here is that he is a Father, who has lost his daughter, and is probably torturing himself about going out and leaving her at home - we all make decisions which we would like to change in hindsight, but that is life.

[Puro_pt]

To be honest I get angrier each time I see his brother and sister n law on the news. I have done some stupid things in my life but to leave a child in a hotel room , for gods sake.
Another thing I question would an ordinary wee bin man or plumber from a less affluent family be getting the same British media attention.
Like everybody else I pray that the child is found safely. But I would pursue the parents through law if they in fact are proven to be negligent.

Negligence is a very hard thing to prove and that is not the practice of the Portuguese justice in similar cases (similar as in wich something happens to a child left alone at home). Also, Portuguese justice is very "subjective" and takes into account all the factors before an accusation being done. In this case, with the data available, there is absolutely no reason to acuse the parents of negligence. They left the children in a situation that for itself presented no aparent danger (it is fair to assume that)
I've heard lots of stories(, some even bombastic, wich if proven...
In either case, for the time being the child is the number one concern and afterwards, if that is the case, the Public Ministry (the D.A. in north american terms) will decide if it will bring charges before a judge.



Just as a reference, let me tell you how this things work (more or less as i'm no expert and usually keep trouble free enough not to know this very well )

If you have a serious crime, the Judiciary Police investigates it and reports it's fidings to the Public Ministry, wich supervises the whole thing.
When phone tapping or house searching is required, the public ministry, presents the findings to the so called "Judge of Instruction" [of the process], wich according to the findings may or not allow such actions.
That same judge, will also listen the "arguidos" (the inquired, ) and determine if they remain in that situation. If they stay as arguidos he will determine the "Coaction measures", wich basicly is the level of freedom you'll have until the trial (if you are "pronounced", that is , if the Public Ministry decides to acuse you) or the non-pronouncing of you.
This measures may be reviewed(in a compulsory way or not) according to it's level.
Mr Murat got the lowest form of coaction measures wich is the so called "term of identity and residence" , where you give an adress where you can be reached and if absent from it for more than 5 days, you must report the adress where you can be reached.
All of this makes part of the Inquiry stage

After this, There may be an aditional step in the midle, where the arguido or the assistants may require the instruction of the process, where he will require that the instruction judge validates the Public ministry decision of acusing or "archiving" the process.

After this optional stage you may or not have the accusation. If the accusation goes ahead, then you'll have a trial

In a case like this, wich is a public crime(The Public ministry/authorities, having knowledge of this crime must investigate it, even if the victim doesn't want it), you have the arguidos and the Public ministry. If the victim wishes, it may, thru a lawyer, constitute itself as assistant to the process and thus also participate in the trial.

Sorry for the mess but more or less is this

[lynnski]

Where does it tell you he is from an affluent family . he is just an ordinary man from GLASGOW

No, he's not.

Dave2 said pretty much everything I was gonna say. If this family had no Scottish connections then the Scottish news wouldn't be all over it like flies round shite. The British press have a lot to answer for, News of The World etc especially, sensationalist rags that I wouldn't wipe my arse with.

[bluepeterno1]

Where does it tell you he is from an affluent family . he is just an ordinary man from GLASGOW

No, he's not.

Dave2 said pretty much everything I was gonna say. If this family had no Scottish connections then the Scottish news wouldn't be all over it like flies round shite. The British press have a lot to answer for, News of The World etc especially, sensationalist rags that I wouldn't wipe my arse with.

A lot of the people here seem to be missing the point , this is not about class ,or being scottish ,or english,or what kind of job you have ,or how much money you have .Its about a poor wee girl who has been taken from her family ,and no family deserves this, as for the press saturation it is up to each individual whether they read it or not nobody forces you

[MadameZiggy]

It isn't about class but I think what people are trying to say here is that the parents have been turned into some kind of media martyrs.

That perhaps might not have happened if the parents had been "Jamie-Lynn & Jinxy from Greenock".I suspect that everyone would be baying for blood & not so sympathetic if it were a wee "neddy" under-class couple.
I definitely do think that certain corners from the press would be calling for the parents to be held accountable for the circumstances which lead to the horrible situation.

However,the papers appear to think it's "ok" that a consultant doc & GP left their kids ALONE in a hotel room to go out for a meal.

That this is just par for the course,"Oh dear,kids have fell asleep but hey,let's still go out for dinner we'll just leave them here".

Well,that just isn't what you do.
You never take chances.

Not that I am a perfect parent but I have NEVER left my kids alone ever.
If I can't get a sitter,tough,I stay in.

Unfortunately,it's one of the mandatory rules of being a parent-always to be responsible & keep them safe EVEN if that impinges on your social life or idea of a "fun" holiday night out.

It is worth noting that it is ILLEGAL to leave a child under 14 alone & unsupervised.
Therefore,there has to be some blame put upon the parents.

At the end of the day,they failed to do their best & they are left with the ultimate punishment-their wee girl is missing & it doesn't bear thinking about where & what is happening or happened to her.

And before anyone gets ratty,I'm not a cold-hearted prig.I do feel really sorry for the family but I just still can't help thinking that if they hadn't been so careless & frivolous their wee girl would've still been here.

[bluepeterno1]

Everybody has the right to there own opinion, i have never left my kids alone ,and never would. But i dont think starting some sort of witch hunt against the parents is the answer ,if they have broken the law then they are due to pay, but no matter what punishment they recieve ,it will never be the same as the punishment they are getting just now. But for the grace of god .

Bluepeterno1

[dave2]

The family can't really complain about the press attention, given it is their stated aim to keep a high profile to this case. The fun run, yellow ribbons, David Beckham, etc are designed to keep this story high up the news agenda.

The problem being that unless a development occurs, the news will drift off to the next story. I also wonder, if it had happened in a wet windswept cold part of the world whether so many press would be there. i;m sure a few journalists liked the idea of two weeks on the Algarve, bit of reporting, bit of golf, bit of sun.

[Puro_pt]

It is worth noting that it is ILLEGAL to leave a child under 14 alone & unsupervised.
Therefore,there has to be some blame put upon the parents.

It Is ilegal on Scotland or/and in England/Wales... but this is Portugal. We usually don't have laws regarding common sense!

[Cyclo2000]

C'mon Graham!
There are people here expressing the very thoughts I did several pages back but as yet you haven't vented spleen on them! Keep up!