VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

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VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby Botanic Squirrel » Thu Jun 25, 2009 11:54 am

I found fascinating bibliophile treasure last week.

I was in The Salvation Army looking for 2nd hands books, and I saw two volumes of James Agate's autobiography, EGO 6 and EGO 7. I only knew his name vaguely, and thought perhaps he had something to do with Evelyn Waugh and his set. I left the books and looked up Agate in some of my own books when I got home. I only found one reference and one quotation, in a biography of John Osborne. The quotation - "A dirty mind is a perpetual feast" - amused me enough to go back for the books the next day. When I went back, I spotted a lovely copy of JA Froude's 'Caesar', which hadn't been there the previous day, an 1896 edition embossed with the gold stamp of The Collegiate School, Glasgow. It was a presentation copy given to someone named Robert K McMillan in 1899 'For distinguished excellence in Latin and French.' Well done him.

All this alone would be a bargain at 50p, but the thing that really thrilled me was when I picked it up, flicked through it, and found it full of photographic negatives, 17 of them, all at least as old as the book. Late Victorian ladies in their gardens, a gentleman at his desk, some kids on a lawn, a picture of George Square here in Glasgow. The negatives are four inches by three and a half inches and in amazing condition for their age, it was only looking at the images that convinced me of their age. I went to The Copy Bureau in Glasgow and simply put reversing the values in the photocopier, and enlarging them, they turned out incredibly well.

Looking for any help in identifying some of the places.

DOMESTIC INTERIOR.
Image

ROBERT K MCMILLAN POSSIBLY?
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ROBERT'S SISTER - IN MY MIND, ANYWAY.
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AT HOME.
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PATER FAMILIAS?
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PATER BEING SCHOLARLY.
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CECILY AND CUTHBERT. :)
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GEORGE SQUARE, PRE-WAR. IMAGE REVERSED ( SORRY! )
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FAMILY HOME. BROOMHILL/HYNDLAND? I'D LOVE TO FIND THIS HOUSE.
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HOLIDAY HOME. FRIENDS SUGGEST ARRAN OR KIRKINTILLOCH.
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ANOTHER HOLIDAY HOME?
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CHEERFUL CHAP IN GARDEN.
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I DON'T FANCY YOURS MUCH.
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SHADY CHARACTER ON THE LEFT.
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HATLESS MAN BY RIVER.
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MYSTERY BUILDING. IN GLASGOW? DOES ANYONE KNOW IT?
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Hope you like them. Any help identifying that last building would be much appreciated, as would any help locating the family house. Not much to go on, I know, but if I find out anything else I'll post it here.
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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby mack4 » Thu Jun 25, 2009 1:15 pm

I think the "Family Home " looks similar to a place on Sydenham Rd,Hyndland but....!
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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby Ronnie » Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:27 pm

Fabulous find, Squirrel. Can I suggest you watermark these, or they will be stolen.
The Collegiate School (which was run on Protestant lines) was on Garnethill, and the premises later became St Aloysius (which of course is run on Roman Catholic lines).
I wonder if you can find Robert K McMillan in the 1901 census? That would give an address for him and his family at that time, which may tie in with the house and garden in the photos.
The last building looks like a hotel or hydro. Maybe worth checking pictures of those.
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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby govanboay » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:57 am

Excellent stuff!! I saw these over at the BHF forum and enjoyed them then.


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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby Botanic Squirrel » Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:23 am

Glad you enjoyed them, folks.

Surprised to hear you say, Ronnie, that The Collegiate School was on Garnethill because the inscription on the inside of the book in which I found the negs says the school was in Queen's Park. I found a charter online announcing the foundation of the school but it says permanent premises have yet to be found, temporary premises being established in the Normal School, which was indeed in the Garnethill/Cowcaddens area.

http://special.lib.gla.ac.uk/images/exh ... h.J_21.jpg

Image

Up at New City Road, Cowcaddens.

I think you're right about the hotel or hydro, but it doesn't look particularly 'Scottish'. But what do I know about fancy hotels? Housing Benefit doesn't stretch that far! :)

I'll maybe scan the inscription from the book and post it here, because it features an engraving of the school that someone might recognise.

By synchronicity, until last week I'd never heard of JA Froude, then yesterday I picked up a copy of '142 Strand: A Radical Address' by Rosemary Ashton and who should be pictured in it and get extensive coverage but old JA Froude himself. Seems he was a bit of a radical in his day, and the Dean of Exeter College, Oxford organised a burning of his books!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2006/no ... eorgeeliot
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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby duck » Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:32 pm

Ronnie wrote:I wonder if you can find Robert K McMillan in the 1901 census? That would give an address for him and his family at that time, which may tie in with the house and garden in the photos.


Had a look at the 1901 census as Ronnie suggested. There are 111 Robert McMillands in Glasgow though just one Robert K McMillan. He is aged 16 and in Kinning Park.
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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby viceroy » Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:19 pm

Botanic Squirrel wrote:PATER BEING SCHOLARLY.
Image


Pater isn't just being scholarly, I think perhaps he is also being a clergyman. Is that not a dog collar he's wearing? In which case maybe your Robert K. McMillan is a son of the manse.......?
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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby Ronnie » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:16 pm

Well, from what I can see the Collegiate School was on Garnethill (http://www.amostcuriousmurder.com/Collegiate.htm) but there was also a Southern Collegiate School, presumably the one young RK went to (mentioned here: http://gdl.cdlr.strath.ac.uk/eyrwho/eyrwho0401.htm) if he indeed lived in Kinning Park.
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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby Ronnie » Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:23 pm

govanboay wrote:the BHF forum


By the way, what's the BHF forum?
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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby HollowHorn » Fri Jun 26, 2009 9:40 pm

Dexter / Ony, if you have nothing relevant to contribute to the thread, go elsewhere, this is an interesting thread, don't spoil it for everyone else.
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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby Its_a_gamp » Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:05 am

Ronnie wrote:
govanboay wrote:the BHF forum


By the way, what's the BHF forum?


I wondered the same, but thought it would be something really obvious so didn't ask!

The Photo marked as "another holiday home" has been annoying me since I saw it! Can't quite put my finger on it but is it possible that it is a school or something? Just something strange about it??
Due to cutbacks, the light at the end of the tunnel is off until further notice!
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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby Botanic Squirrel » Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:40 am

I wondered about Pater being a clergyman, but I lean more in the scholarly direction. In the first picture of the Domestic Interior there are pictures of Venice on the walls, and Pater in his study has the Giza Plateu and the Great Pyramid on his will. Also - and it shows up better on the negative - the photo on the left of the pyramid shows someone in robes holding a scroll which may be a graduation picture.

Forgot to bring the picture of the Collegiate School but it definitely isn't this Garnethill building.

Image

Not sure about the Ronnie McMillan aged 16 in Kinning Park being our boy. He got presented with the 'Caesar' book for the 1898/99 term when he was in the sixth form. Was sixth form younger in those days?

Oh I feel like an investigator! Thanks for all the suggestions to go on. I'll get to the bottom of this eventually and I will get a photo of myself standing in that garden.

( 'Are you actively seeking work?' 'Oh sure, sure...' )
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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby Ronnie » Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:21 am

Keep huntin' those nuts, Mr or Ms Squirrel! :)
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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby Lucky Poet » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:16 pm

A fascinating find indeed. Thanks for posting it :)
Image

I love the mirth there, in what would stereotypically be a stern patrician.
All the world seems in tune on a Spring afternoon, when we're poisoning pigeons in the park.
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Re: VICTORIAN/EDWARDIAN DISCOVERY

Postby Its_a_gamp » Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:58 pm

Like you I thought the Robert K that was 16 in 1901was too young, however I looked him up on the census anyway and his father is Robert McMillan Minister of Strathbungo parish church, too much of a coincidence to ignore, if anyone living in the pollokshields area can tell us what the house at 18 Leslie Rd looks like it would be apprciated (street view doesn't go down have looked).

If you want a copy of the 1901 census image for this address or Robert juniors birth cert, PM me you e-mail address and I will attempt to sent it.
Last edited by Its_a_gamp on Sat Jun 27, 2009 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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