St Enoch Burn

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St Enoch Burn

Postby toomse » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:14 am

well I've been searching for an entry for quite some time

here's some older maps of the route

http://www.theglasgowstory.com/imagevie ... =TGSB00227
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http://www.nls.uk/maps/military/record.cfm?id=192
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this one shows the route extending south from Argyle Street to the Clyde
(I think the previous maps are using the burn to mark the Glasgow boundary line)
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this one is the most detailed - the line of the route is marked as Royalty Boundary
I wonder if the burn in present day is actually culverted down West Nile Street/Mitchell Street
http://www.nls.uk/maps/townplans/glasgow_1_centre.html
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I'll use this map to align the route with present day OS maps
http://www.nls.uk/maps/towns/detail.cfm?id=786


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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby toomse » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:29 am

Here's detailed Water Board diagrams for the route south from St Vincent Street to the Clyde

I thought the route would be clearly defined like the Molendinar diagrams but I've browsed all the sections north and east from here but can find no reference


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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby toomse » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:36 am

have also browsed the route on the Power, Gas & Comms sites

again - there's no reference to the burn on any of these diagrams


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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby toomse » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:53 am

had a theory I could gain entry around Mitchell Street/Mitchell Lane/Gordon Lane but have checked almost all these boxes to no avail


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wonder if this triangular grille would be suitable for the jorrie championship
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looks like it's gone to history (for the time being anyway)
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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby cumbo » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:16 pm

I'm sure we talked about on another thread about 4 years ago,If you take a look at Mitchell Lane
south of the NCP car park the cobbles have been layed out in the style of a small meandering burn,The recent works on the appartments being built in that area have damaged the effect.
Someone at the time talked of the St Enoch Burn.....Intresting.
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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby cumbo » Tue Mar 10, 2009 10:50 pm

Been thinking about this one, The basement at lewis's department store used to flood from time
to time,they kept a pump on 24/7 it was water from an underground burn.Supprised as the low level
and underground are nearby.
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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby Fossil » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:24 pm

cumbo wrote:Been thinking about this one, The basement at lewis's department store used to flood from time
to time,they kept a pump on 24/7 it was water from an underground burn.Supprised as the low level
and underground are nearby.


Aye true it’s in the sub-sub basement.

I don think this is mentioned somewhere in a different thread a while back. Can’t remember which one


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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby toomse » Sat Mar 14, 2009 1:18 am

thought on the odd chance I’d have a look below Finlay House as the route on the Royal Boundary map runs directly below here

enter 14 West Nile Street
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going down
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accross here
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down again
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didn’t see any obvious signs of the burn or any potential access points but this basement is quite a way down and stuffed full of machinery

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all very strange
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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby Glesga_Steve » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:48 am

I did a bit of research into the St. Enoch Burn for work a few years ago and couldn't find much more than what you obviously have judging by the various plans you've uploaded.

My guess is that the burn was absorbed into the sewerage system as this was fairly common in the 1800s/early 1900s, especially if a burn was polluted to the extent that the water could no longer be used for any purpose and presented a hazard to human health.

A good example of a burn that 'disappeared' due to this practice is the Gads Burn or Garngad Burn - it originated somewhere in the vicinity of Barnhill train station (or perhaps slightly further north) and merged with the Molendinar Burn in the vicinity of Roebank Street in Dennistoun. It is now a significant part of the trunk sewer that serves the Springburn/Balornock/Barmulloch part of the city.

Another example, from the west side of the city, is the Whiteinch Burn.
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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby toomse » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:34 am

Have to agree with you there Steve - thought this was probably the case. That’s why I posted a picture of the sewer covers at the end! :(
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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby Glesga_Steve » Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:28 pm

Below is a scan of part of an old drawing that shows the line of various burns (some of which still exist but most of which have 'disappeared') in Glasgow.

It shows the St. Enochs Burn starting as the Glasgow Burn in the general vicinity of where Baird Street Police Station is now, with another tributary joining it from the eastern end of the old Parliamentary Road.

Another burn simply named 'Gott' joins it immediately before it's merge with the Clyde - I reckon the 'Gott' would have been somewhere along the existing line of Howard Street / Stockwell Place.

St. Enochs Burn
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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby AMcD » Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:35 pm

Excellent map Glesga_Steve.

I'd always wondered what this was that runs into the Clyde next the Ferry at the Broomlielaw.

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Looks like it's the Brownfield Burn.
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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby Ronnie » Wed Apr 01, 2009 9:40 pm

Hi Steve
Any chance of seeing the map at a bigger size ... it looks fascinating.
Best wishes
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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby HollowHorn » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:11 pm

Ronnie wrote:Any chance of seeing the map at a bigger size

You pipped me at the post (see what I just did there?) Ronnie.

Me too for a larger version please.
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Re: St Enoch Burn

Postby Glesga_Steve » Wed Apr 01, 2009 10:14 pm

AMcD wrote:Excellent map Glesga_Steve.

I'd always wondered what this was that runs into the Clyde next the Ferry at the Broomlielaw.

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Looks like it's the Brownfield Burn.


I'm fairly sure that the Brownfield Burn doesn't exist any more - in the 15 years I've been in my job, I''ve never come across any reference to (or evidence of) it other than on the plan that I uploaded. In saying that, I've never had any reason to try to establish whether it still exists or not so I haven't went looking for references / evidence.

The photo you uploaded looks like the outfall from the CSO (combined sewer overflow) at the junction of Broomielaw / McAlpine Street. I have always suspected that the sewer in McAlpine Street may originally have been the culverted Brownfield Burn. This theory is largely fuelled by two factors - (i) the Brownfield Burn joined the Clyde in the general vicinity of where McAlpine Street is now; and (ii) the sewer in McAlpine Street is unusually large, in fact I'm sure from memory it's by far the biggest sewer in the city centre area.

There are a lot of CSO outfalls to the Clyde between Glasgow Green and the SECC - one at almost every road junction along Clyde Street / Broomielaw / Anderston Quay / Lancefield Quay. The reason there are so many is due to the fact that all the sewers that run from the city centre / Anderston area towards the Clyde used to discharge straight into the river. In the late 1800s/early 1900s a new trunk sewer (the Glasgow Interceptor) was laid east to west along Clyde Street etc to intercept the flows in these older sewers and (simplifying the sewerage layout here but...) drain them towards Dalmuir Sewage Treatment Works (in Clydebank). At the junction with each intercepted sewer, however, a CSO was built to allow excess flows to be discharged to the river, through the original outfall, during storm conditions.

If you were to walk along the south bank of the Clyde at low tide you would be able to see all the CSO outfalls. Similarly, if you were to walk along the north bank you would be able to see the same sort of set-up on the south side of the river - though there aren't quite as many on the south side.

I'll upload plans of this area over the next few nights to show the position of these CSOs.
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