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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:33 am
by War Baby
I have fond memories of the old Mount Vernon Avenue, having been born and brought up there. One of the crime books about Peter Manuel has a photo of the Isabel Cook "grave" with part of the Mount Vernon countryside in the background. Can anyone tell me the name of the book that has that photo in it? I would very much like to buy that book, just to have that photo. I remember it described (below the photo) the area as being "bleak". I thought it was a great place for exploring, and will never forget it.

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 8:12 pm
by scotsjohn45
Raised in 2nd Street Birkenshaw and even now still see the effect of Manuel on society on this forum, but the nightmare might never have happened but for the stupidity and vanity of one woman, my mother.
In the summer of 1950, my mother took my older sister and myself for a walk in the countryside near Birkenshaw and on that walk, she was attacked by Peter Manuel. The bravery of my seven year old sister saved us all probably; she was carrying a little toy spade and as Manuel wrestled on the ground with my mother, she struck him as hard as she could on the head with the spade several times. He got up and ran away bleeding heavily.
Police were called and as they had a pretty good idea of who their man might be, Manuel was placed in an identity parade, complete with gashed head and my mother failed to identify him. My father later told me that she was too busy acting the victim and spent her time crying and howling like a wounded animal.
Years later, when Manuel's reign of terror was over, she saw no fault in her behaviour and actually blamed the police for not pointing Manuel out to her. Vanity has it's price.
Oddly enough, my sister was also very friendly with the daughter of Inspector Muncie who would later bring Manuel to heel. For me the memory of the event is still as sharp as the day it happened but it was only much later in life that the enormity of my mother's failing became apparent

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 10:59 pm
by moonbeam
My aunt and uncle lived in Kylepark Avenue. They woke one morning to find police all other their back garden. They got quite a fright as they knew the family. They seemed to think Peter Manual had gone round offering to do gardening work in the previous weeks in the area. But my uncle thought it was just him or a man like him "casing the joint". My uncle was called as a witness but in the end was not required to give his very small amount of evidence. My aunt bought a new hat to go to the High Court, as she thought my uncle would be called to give evidence. She got teased for years afterwards at family gatherings over it! It was quite a hat!

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:44 pm
by Icecube
War Baby this is it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crime-Pond-Will ... 0550203532

Needless to say he doesn't admit to the utter incompetence of Lanarkshire CID in the investigation.

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:54 pm
by War Baby
Icecube,
Is the photo taken at the scene of one of Manuel's murders, with a group of police there? If it is that one, then I will buy it right away!

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:11 pm
by Icecube
War Baby wrote:Icecube,
Is the photo taken at the scene of one of Manuel's murders, with a group of police there? If it is that one, then I will buy it right away!


Am sure it is though its about ten years since I read it. There are a few local aerial photos of places in it that you will surely recognise.

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:58 pm
by ninatoo
scotsjohn45 wrote: "...the nightmare might never have happened but for the stupidity and vanity of one woman, my mother."

"... Manuel was placed in an identity parade, complete with gashed head and my mother failed to identify him. My father later told me that she was too busy acting the victim and spent her time crying and howling like a wounded animal.
Years later, when Manuel's reign of terror was over, she saw no fault in her behaviour and actually blamed the police for not pointing Manuel out to her. Vanity has it's price."


The total lack of sympathy you and your father had/have for your mother, having been attacked by this animal, astounds me. How about giving her the benefit of the doubt for maybe having PSTD instead of writing it off as 'vanity'? The woman was very likely in shock at the time, traumatised and likely to have been injured herself, so it's probably no wonder she could not identify him. No I do not know your mother, but I do know these events can and very often DO have life-long effects on people. If my son spoke about me following such an attack the way you speak of your mother, I would hang my head in shame.

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:23 pm
by War Baby
Icecube,
Thanks a million. I have just ordered the book.

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 1:35 pm
by Doug
ninatoo wrote:
scotsjohn45 wrote: "...the nightmare might never have happened but for the stupidity and vanity of one woman, my mother."

"... Manuel was placed in an identity parade, complete with gashed head and my mother failed to identify him. My father later told me that she was too busy acting the victim and spent her time crying and howling like a wounded animal.
Years later, when Manuel's reign of terror was over, she saw no fault in her behaviour and actually blamed the police for not pointing Manuel out to her. Vanity has it's price."


The total lack of sympathy you and your father had/have for your mother, having been attacked by this animal, astounds me. How about giving her the benefit of the doubt for maybe having PSTD instead of writing it off as 'vanity'? The woman was very likely in shock at the time, traumatised and likely to have been injured herself, so it's probably no wonder she could not identify him. No I do not know your mother, but I do know these events can and very often DO have life-long effects on people. If my son spoke about me following such an attack the way you speak of your mother, I would hang my head in shame.


Well said. How can anyone possibly have known what this poor woman was thinking or feeling at such a traumatic time.

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:11 pm
by scotsjohn45
I can well understand your consternation and indeed disgust at what I have posted, but what was posted comes after many years of consideration of my mother's life. The people who loved her who she despised and didn't hesitate to betray, those whose lives she tried to ruin essentially for entertainment purposes, her un-diluted bigotry, the decent neighbours whose names she blackened. Her totally selfish lifestyle. If anyone said or did anything which might give her the slightest offence, she would scream and cry like a wounded animal. She was totally manipulative of those closest to her. Nowadays she would automatically be diagnosed as having Asperger's syndrome. She would have clawed you eyes out if you said so.
My father who was the most loving of men,had his life ruined by her, but stood by her till his own death. But essentially her character showed in her blaming the police for not pointing out her attacker to her. No blame could possibly be attached to her.
Cut it any way you want, her failure to have Peter Manuel taken to court on an attempted murder charge ultimately cost lives.
It is also worth noting that at the time of Manuel's attack on my mother, three girls in their advanced teenage years saw the attack and ran away. Their witnessing the attack and I believe a subsequent denial(this I got much later in life)didn't help either.
Don't be too quick to be a bleeding heart and try PTSD while you are at it. This post was meant to be informative, not to start a coconut shy!

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 9:20 pm
by Fat Cat
scotsjohn45 wrote:I can well understand your consternation and indeed disgust at what I have posted, but what was posted comes after many years of consideration of my mother's life. The people who loved her who she despised and didn't hesitate to betray, those whose lives she tried to ruin essentially for entertainment purposes, her un-diluted bigotry, the decent neighbours whose names she blackened. Her totally selfish lifestyle. If anyone said or did anything which might give her the slightest offence, she would scream and cry like a wounded animal. She was totally manipulative of those closest to her. Nowadays she would automatically be diagnosed as having Asperger's syndrome. She would have clawed you eyes out if you said so.
My father who was the most loving of men,had his life ruined by her, but stood by her till his own death. But essentially her character showed in her blaming the police for not pointing out her attacker to her. No blame could possibly be attached to her.
Cut it any way you want, her failure to have Peter Manuel taken to court on an attempted murder charge ultimately cost lives.
It is also worth noting that at the time of Manuel's attack on my mother, three girls in their advanced teenage years saw the attack and ran away. Their witnessing the attack and I believe a subsequent denial(this I got much later in life)didn't help either.
Don't be too quick to be a bleeding heart and try PTSD while you are at it. This post was meant to be informative, not to start a coconut shy!


More issues than Manuel going on here.

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Wed Feb 19, 2014 8:51 pm
by ninatoo
I agree Fatcat, very sad, really.

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 6:05 pm
by scotsjohn45
Not as much as you might think. What was offered was a snippet of history which was told to me by my father some thirty years ago and was put to bed then. Don't say it isn't of some interest though( if you discount the need to fend off the Goody Two Shoes). Ultimately, Manuel's notoriety was guaranteed by the lottery like odds of his attempt on the life of a woman of my mother's disposition; another twist in a bitter tale.

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 7:32 pm
by purplepantman
How dare scotsjohn45 come on here and make comments about HIS memories of the Peter Manuel case.
I mean who does he think he is? Anyone else who posts candid comments about their personal memories of
the Peter Manuel case on the thread called “The Peter Manuel case” should be banned.

No more personal opinions should be allowed and no saying anything bad about your mum
(or anyone's mum for that matter). It’s just not on.


ninatoo wrote:No I do not know your mother,

Yes, that's about the only sensible thing you've said.

Re: The Peter Manuel case.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:21 pm
by Fat Cat
purplepantman wrote:How dare scotsjohn45 come on here and make comments about HIS memories of the Peter Manuel case.
I mean who does he think he is? Anyone else who posts candid comments about their personal memories of
the Peter Manuel case on the thread called “The Peter Manuel case” should be banned.

No more personal opinions should be allowed and no saying anything bad about your mum
(or anyone's mum for that matter). It’s just not on.


ninatoo wrote:No I do not know your mother,

Yes, that's about the only sensible thing you've said.


It's just a shame he couldn't confront his mum about this. Pent up anger is a destructive thing.

You can't choose your family.