The Peter Manuel case.

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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby ninatoo » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:45 am

purplepantman wrote:How dare scotsjohn45 come on here and make comments about HIS memories of the Peter Manuel case.
I mean who does he think he is? Anyone else who posts candid comments about their personal memories of
the Peter Manuel case on the thread called “The Peter Manuel case” should be banned.

No more personal opinions should be allowed and no saying anything bad about your mum
(or anyone's mum for that matter). It’s just not on.


ninatoo wrote:No I do not know your mother,

Yes, that's about the only sensible thing you've said.


Well, I am certainly glad you got that off your chest, and I am sure you feel sooooo much better. I would be offended if I gave a rat's arse about you or what you think of me, but luckily I don't. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby purplepantman » Fri Feb 21, 2014 4:31 pm

ninatoo wrote:if I gave a rat's arse


Never tried it. Is it an Antipodean delicacy?
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby pictongirl » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:07 pm

pictongirl wrote:
KazzieBear wrote:Mid-20th century prostitutes were often given colourful names by their acquaintances. We have already heard of Russian Dora – now it was the turn of Red Helen, who went up to her Pimlico, London, room for sex with an American air force sergeant shortly before she was murdered on Monday, September 6th, 1954.
Red Helen was in fact Ellen Carlin, 28, from Ulster. Neighbours heard screams around midnight as she was punched round the head and then strangled with one of her black nylon stockings.
A week later a girl flower-seller in Piccadilly who saw the man who went to Red Helen’s room was threatened by a US serviceman. Detectives discreetly watched the American, but he never spoke to the flower-seller again. Despite this American dimension, the crime was subsequently linked to the Scottish serial killer Peter Manuel, who shortly before he was hanged in 1958 for seven murders confessed additionally to the murder of Red Helen.

Ellen Carlin, was actually my boyfriends, mothers auntie, and for years they thought it was her sister who killed her.

Ellen Carlin was my Aunt, she was called Red Helen because she was a natural redhead but dyed her hair blonde. There was one member of the family who thought it was our mum but since l have shown her story written up in true crime mags she has changed her mind. Her sister our mother told us that it was an American GI that was the suspect and that they shipped him back to the US when this came about. The confession of Peter Manuel was a surprise when l was looking up about Helen. There was also a picture of Helen on the front of The News of the World at the time and an article about the murder l have since lost my copy....M.Carlin
PS: haven since found out that Peter Manuel was born in New York and came back to Scotland when he was five that's why people were saying my Aunt Ellen Carlin was with an American!
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby Dot » Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:26 pm

I wonder if the ITV drama 'In Plain Sight' starting on 7th December will be an accurate account. Dougie Henshall plays the detective and Martin Compston plays Manuel.

I gather some of the relatives of the murder victims are not happy that this is to go ahead.
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby Pointyears » Sun Dec 11, 2016 9:32 am

Manuel's sister went on to become a nurse of great reputation and regarded with great affection in Lanarkshire. A devil and an angel in the one family.
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby War Baby » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:52 pm

Dot,
I am not surprised that some of the relatives are not happy. I don't think they should have made this into a drama. I have been watching the program, and it is chilling. I live in Mount Vernon myself, and everyone was affected by it at the time. The relatives should have been spared this.
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby Fandango » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:40 pm

I believe that Michael Smart was the little boy I used to play with as a child, when he was visiting his grandparents who lived over the road to me.
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby Dot » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:56 pm

War Baby,

I can only imagine the relief there must have been when Manuel was finally caught.
I am sure people must have been afraid to go out.

I know friends of my parents who were constantly worrying about their daughters who were at University at the time of the
Yorkshire Ripper murders. The girls had left Northern Ireland during 'The Troubles' and gone to England to do their degrees.

Muncie seems to have got it completely wrong in the case of George Beattie.
I believe Beattie was released and is now living on licence somewhere in England?
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby BrandonB95 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:24 pm

Sorry to bring this up years down the line but was Isabelle Cooke found on the mount Vernon park side or the other side?
I'm doing research for a history project and being from this area and reading about this man being Scotland biggest serial killer at the time and my grandparents talking about him and knowing they were about staying in the area at this time is very scary
Thanks
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby War Baby » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:08 am

If you look for Sherburn Gardens on the map, she was buried at the foot of that field. Sherburn gardens is where a dirt track ran off Mount Vernon Avenue at its highest point towards the Brickworks. (There were no houses in this area in the 1950's) The field stretches southwards and downhill from there, and there was another dirt track at the foot of it. They were coming back along that track, so I believe, and she was buried just a few yards off the dirt track into the field.

There was a photo in a book about Manuel, showing the police standing over the spot where she was buried. Unfortunately, I don't know the name of the book.

Nowadays that field is grassed over and is mainly used by people walking their dogs. In the 1950's it was usually a potato field, though, being January, it was just a ploughed field when Cook was found buried there. .... So she wasn't found on the Mount Vernon Park side of the avenue. It was about two or three hundred yards to the eastern side of the avenue.
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby BrandonB95 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:10 pm

Thank you for this information, just by looking at maps I found it hard to figure out the maps because as you say there is houses and that there now so I was finding it hard to work out. There was also a lot of questions about the whereabouts of Manuel and why he was in the mount Vernon area at this time. A few people have said that there was a local pub nearby the only one I know is barrachnie pub but not sure if he was known to go in the pub or even if it stood as a pub at this time in the 50's but this just made me think he might have walked home to birkenshaw through the fields and came across the poor girl.
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby War Baby » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:22 pm

It was the Woodend Inn he was going into. I have read that he was attracted to the Mount Vernon area because of the big mansion houses. He thought he might try a few break-ins.
Last edited by War Baby on Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby BrandonB95 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:23 pm

This makes sense now, i think this was the pub they found the note that got him caught in the end
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby War Baby » Tue Feb 21, 2017 1:46 pm

Just about the Mount Vernon area around Mount Vernon Avenue in the 1950's..... Coming from the Hamilton Road end of the avenue, the houses stopped at Woodend Road. From that point, if you looked to your left, you could see Wester Road on the other side of Mount Vernon Park. There was, and still is an angular pathway that begins at the Junction of Woodend Road and Mount Vernon Avenue and goes into Mount Vernon Park. That slanting path used to be a railway siding. It was a path in the fifties, still raised up, not as high as a railway embankment, but raised all the same.

Not sure if the girl Cook came along that path on her way to the bus stop that night. To get onto the path from Carrick Drive, she would have had to cross the railway line, which her parents had told her not to do. My theory is that she may have been coming along the north side of the railway line, and coming out at a double gate just by the railway bridge at the top of the hill. That double gate is still there, though much the worse for wear. If she came that way, she would be coming out at the top of the hill where the railway bridge was and she would likely meet Peter Manuel coming up.

Do you know that there used to be another Railway Station at Mount Vernon? It was at the back of Carrick Drive, but as I remember it, you got to it by going along Central Avenue, and up a side path, which may now be named Central Path. Unless you know about the old railway line, you may not have a true picture of what was going on.
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Re: The Peter Manuel case.

Postby BrandonB95 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 2:16 pm

Very interesting I never knew anything about a railway being at that location I know where central path is I think this is next to mount Vernon bowling club and I'm guessing you could walk along there and this would take you to the top of the hill as it would be just now? This must of been terrifying because I believe it was after 6pm in December so would have been pitch black at the time
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