tunnels

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Postby james73 » Thu Dec 22, 2005 7:00 pm

Alycidon wrote:I have tried to annotate a Google Earth view as an initial attempt to show the course of the abandoned tunnel. It is shown in blue, running from Scotland Street Junction on the General Terminus branch to Port Eglinton Junction on the GSWR line. The GSWR line was totally abandoned when St Enoch was closed as the parallel Glasgow and Paisley Joint line could carry all traffic, although the layout had to be changed further to the west as originally you couldn't access the Paisley Canal line from Glasgow Central.

The Key to the photo:
Light Blue = Former Caledonian main line, still open
Yellow = GSWR Main line, closed and lifted
Orange = City Union Line (joint)
Magenta = General Terminus branch, closed and lifted
Red = General Terminus branch, still used for freight
Dark Blue = Connecting tunnel from General Terminus branch to GSW line

Image

:?

You've showed the General Terminus branch conncting to the GSW line, but both
the images below show it connecting to the City Union line, and "An Illustrated
History of Glasgow's Railways" also shows this.

Image

Image



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Postby Alycidon » Fri Dec 23, 2005 2:16 pm

Hi James and all

Thats what I get for throwing things together from memory at work!

You are quite correct in saying that the branch to terminus junction connected with the City Union line, but much further to the East than the map shows, and Ewan's diagram is also wrong as it show the branch connecting from the north.

I have attached two sections of the Alan Godfrey edition as well as my diagram based on this map. Hope it clarifies.


Image

Image

Image
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Postby james73 » Fri Dec 23, 2005 3:34 pm

Those are great scans. What's the book called?

Is it just me or does the second scan seem to show only two lines crossing
Salkeld Street? Presumably a map prior to St Enoch being extended?



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Postby Alycidon » Fri Dec 23, 2005 4:25 pm

HI James

It is scanned from the Alan Godfrey edition Old Ordnance Survey map (Glasgow Sheet 14) Pollokshields 1894, and it does only show two tracks approaching St Enoch.

These maps are superb VFM, available from http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/scotland1.htm at £2.20 each. Needless to say I have several. They make for interesting comparisons with the Google Earth views.
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Postby DickyHart » Sat Dec 24, 2005 3:27 am

for those who may be interested in going down to botanics station at any point. Lord Sleek was looking to go down the other day so i took him and there is new fencing up, stronger than the last time, just letting ya know if anyone had not been down before.
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Postby dazed_and_confused » Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:41 pm

scotia47 wrote:
james73 wrote:The in-tunnel junction
Image


Interesting. For some reason I had always thought that the junction was a lot more compact than this.


It's always puzzled me how the 2 smaller tunnels there are only wide enough for a single track, yet at the other end (the Yorkhill tunnel and the Stobcross tunnel) they are both wide enough for double track. I take it they both taper down at some point, before they merge?

I'm just gonna go have a look for photos of the original station online to see what it looked like.

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Postby james73 » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:09 pm

dazed_and_confused wrote:
scotia47 wrote:
james73 wrote:The in-tunnel junction
Image


Interesting. For some reason I had always thought that the junction was a lot more compact than this.


It's always puzzled me how the 2 smaller tunnels there are only wide enough for a single track, yet at the other end (the Yorkhill tunnel and the Stobcross tunnel) they are both wide enough for double track. I take it they both taper down at some point, before they merge?

I'm just gonna go have a look for photos of the original station online to see what it looked like.

:)

They're not single track tunnels - they both had double tracks through
them. It's simply that when the Argyle line was reopened, they only put
one track in the left hand tunnel. It's possible the track has been 'centred'
to aid clearance for the overhead wires, but I can't say for certain.




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Postby dazed_and_confused » Tue Jan 03, 2006 6:43 pm

Ah right. My mate Chris and I took a wander up the Yorkhill one a couple of months ago, and it seemed to be the same size as the entrance at the Exhibition Center tunnel, before it splits in 2. Must just be quite deceptive then. :oops:

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Postby dazed_and_confused » Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:41 pm

Right, anyone fed up with me posting question after question yet? ::): I'd just like to say that Google earth is awesome - I'm spending way too much time comparing it to old maps, when I should be looking for a flat!

Anyway, I've found another tunnel which I haven't seen mentioned anywhere on here before (that I can find anyway). It can be seen on this really funky map of the Cessnock/Govan road area from 1885.
http://www.londonancestor.com/maps/bc-zglas-w.htm

The docks, and this tunnel are shown as 'authorised', which I presume means that they were just plans at that stage? On google earth, you can still make out the tunnel mouths and track formation at either end. At Govan road you can see the treeline along the edge of the garden festival site which was the edge of the docks. And at the other end, you can see a distinct line, which goes right round Ibrox stadium to join on to the main line.

Does anyone know if this tunnel is still accessible? Has anyone been down?

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Postby McShad » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:11 am

The evidence of this line is quite easy to see on Copland Road and Whitefield Road. There is metal and brick walls that were once the bridges for the roads and the SGB/HGB yards occupy the railway lines in a way, although they have been filled in at one point.
Standing on Copland Road, you can see where the line ran round the back of Ibrox Stadium.
As for a tunnel.... ask yourself this... 'Why does Edmiston Drive rise and fall between Broomloan Road and Helen Street?
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Postby dazed_and_confused » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:55 pm

McShad wrote:...the SGB/HGB yards occupy the railway lines in a way, although they have been filled in at one point....
....As for a tunnel.... ask yourself this... 'Why does Edmiston Drive rise and fall between Broomloan Road and Helen Street?


Did I ask a daft question again? :roll: First off, I don't know this area too well at all. I used to work up at the junction of Govan road and...erm...Govan road, which is when I noticed things looked a bit railway-esque.

So are you saying the area between Whitefield road and the corner of Govan road and Harvie st has been filled in, meaning there was just road bridges at either end?

As for why Edmiston Drive rising and falling - I have no idea. Was the railway at ground level?, without being in a cutting? Sorry for the daft questions - all I'm working from is Google earth.

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Postby Socceroo » Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:13 pm

Edmiston Drive rises and falls as it bridges over the old railway lines which feed under it from the South side of the road. The old railway lines went round the back of Ibrox Stadium in a cutting along Brand Street where there were a lot of timber yards and Cooperage's which fed the docks.

The line continued under Govan Road and into the old docks which became the Garden Festival site.

If i recall correctly Edmiston Drive is more like a bridge on columns over the railway and where the railway goes under Govan Road into the docks it was also more like a bridge than a tunnel.
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Postby McShad » Wed Jan 04, 2006 5:09 pm

Want me to go get photographs for you?

The railway line was been filled in at most places to road level and edmiston drive rises to cross it
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Postby viceroy » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:16 pm

The line was called the Prince's Dock Joint Railway and there was also a large marshalling yard along Brand Street where wagons could be kept before being shunted under Govan Road and into the dock area.

The cutting has been completely filled in and as McShad says the only evidence of there ever having been a railway are the remnants of bridges over a number of streets in the area. There were never any tunnels.
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Postby dazed_and_confused » Wed Jan 04, 2006 8:21 pm

viceroy wrote:There were never any tunnels.


OK, my bad. I've been getting over zealous with Google earth again. Should have made it my new years resolution to stop using it so much! ::): Cheers for putting me right guys.

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