St Andrew's Square

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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby elgee » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:14 am

A wynd is a pedestrian path between buildings that led to another street. A pend was a gap on the ground floor level between connected tenements that led to & gave access to the communal back court, a vennel is an unconnected gap ie no flats above it, an open passageway between back to back houses/tenements but had no access to adjacent streets. As I understand it. :P
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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby ninatoo » Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:32 am

Thanks for the explanation elgee.

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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby ninatoo » Mon Nov 05, 2007 12:26 pm

I just found this photo at another forum, dated 1930. The old tenements, and so probably number 23, at the rear of the church, are quite visible!

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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby HollowHorn » Mon Nov 05, 2007 6:16 pm

WhoooooooooHoooooooooo! Best one yet, Nina! 8)
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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby ninatoo » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:46 pm

And it goes beautifully with that 1929 map you posted a couple of pages back!

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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby onyirtodd » Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:59 pm

ninatoo wrote:And it goes beautifully with that 1929 map you posted a couple of pages back!

Nina



Aye, but HH actually drew the 1929 map :wink:
238 to 127. All in all a good afternoon's work
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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby HollowHorn » Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:24 pm

Found these in the Mitchell to-day:
1906 (Possibly from ‘The Daily Record & Mail‘)

And yet some things about it (St. Andrews Sq.) are very suggestive, none more so than the large hexagonal stones that still lie flush with the street near the gates of Messrs Stephen Mitchell & Sons, the tobacco manufacturers on the east side of the square. The stones are said to be the foundations of two sentry boxes in which the two watchmen rested who watched the bank that existed here long ago.
Messrs Mitchell’s works comprise the old bank premises, whose frontage is still the same, save the widening of the doorway into a gate.
The bank cellars are still extant, bursting now only with ‘gold flake’ or other fragrant leaf, instead of the bullion of the past. The stone safes in the cellars are still preserved, Messrs Mitchell having refused to alter them along with the renovations their business made necessary.


This from a book on Commercial Glasgow (forgot to take down the details) :oops:
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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby escritor2014 » Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:22 pm

It's a long time since this thread stirred any interest but if Nina still posts on this forum I think I've discovered a co-incidence with a member of their family. It seems that one of my relatives (John Inglis - profession described as 'Tailor') was registered at the same address - 23 St Andrews Square - as his son Robert Inglis in July 1885 when Robert married. Years later (1917) Robert's son (another) John married a Catherine Carroll.

I know Nina mentions a relative called Carroll at the same address.

The fantastic information on this thread was just the thing needed to try and picture where they lived. I guess by 1885 most of the houses had been divided up / crowded so the landlords raked in more money. The new version of the square looks like it's retained some of the original essence.
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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby ninatoo » Tue Apr 29, 2014 9:31 am

That is a strange coincidence....I looked at the marriage certificate between Robert Inglis and Catherine Carroll, and I don't see a connection to my Carrolls.

Another strange coincidence with this address is that over the weekend I was doing a bit of research on the family and found that a William Gordon and his parents lived at 23 "Back Land" St Andrews Square in 1871. The odd thing is that he grew up to have a daughter and she married Hugh Logan, son of Margaret Carroll (Carroll was her 2nd marriage) in 1909. But Margaret Carroll didn't live at 23 St Andrews Square until after 1911 (I have them there in 1921 and 1923). My family keeps getting connected to that address! :?

Edited to add: Yes this turned out to be a terrific thread, full of information, mostly thanks to Hollowhorn!
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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby escritor2014 » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:01 pm

Hi Nina

I'm getting so confused by this - it's probably me mixing up my grandad, great grandad and great, great grandfather - by 1917 when John Inglis married Catherine Carroll they had moved to Waddell Street(?) but in 1885 when John's father Robert married it was to an Elizabeth McQuade and she was at Shipka Pass, he was at 23 St Andrew's Square and so was his father who was John (a Tailor) who was married to either a Margaret or Elizabeth Murdoch. I did wonder if there was a connection somehow to the Murdoch school that someone mentioned in an earlier post and is marked on one of the early maps. I've also found that when Robert was born in 1865 his father was at 41 Charlotte Street which I think there are threads about on here.

Have you been back to Glasgow at all to see St Andrew's Sq? From the photos that Fossil and others put up it looks really interesting.
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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby ninatoo » Thu May 01, 2014 8:31 am

I think it was me getting the name confused, not you!

No, not been back for a long time now, and I hadn't been doing any family research back then. I wish I had, because it would have been great to go and visit some of the places that my family had connections to. Ah well, maybe one day!
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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby skintobalinto » Thu May 01, 2014 10:32 am

Taken 29th April 2014

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Looking into St Andrews Square by SkintoBalinto, on Flickr
Where the music stinks, and they water the drinks, ...at the nudie bar
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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby escritor2014 » Thu May 01, 2014 9:02 pm

^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^
|||||||||||

That photo above, young Skinto, is a brilliant, brilliant photo...

...Nina, I definitely want to go and see this square and other bits of Glasgow but I think from earlier posts in this thread that you're down under? - So I can imagine a bitter more of a planned trip would be needed for you.

Every time I've been to Glasgow in the last twenty years it's been work or work related so I've never had the opportunity to actually spend time looking round - I was the only one of six kids born south of the border so didn't grow up there. Looking at some of the past and present photos on another thread it seem a scandal and a tragedy that generations of so called city 'planners' have been allowed to rip the heart out of streets and districts by destroying so many beautiful buildings.

I know some of the tenements had to go to make way for better housing, but to rip away whole streets and replace them with barren roads, bland estates and ugly business units seems absolutely criminal.
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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby ninatoo » Mon May 05, 2014 9:41 am

Yes I live in Australia, and as I said I would love to come back for another visit one day. But by the time I have the time and the money, they will probably have torn down the other half of Glasgow. Let's hope NOT!
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Re: St Andrew's Square

Postby glasjar » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:38 am

Hi Ninatoo and all contributors to the post,

I've been doing quite a bit of research into my family history and the address 23 St Andrews Sq Glasgow has appeared a number of times - 1861 census, death certificates and Scottish Post Office Directories . My 3 x grandfather 'William Jardine' and family lived at the address in 1870 and before.

When I did a search for the address I was greatly surprised to find such as wonderful thread on the HG site. Thank you to all the contributors who have provided such a thorough commentary and pictorial history.

I'll be travelling to Scotland for the first time (from Sydney, Australia) in May/June 2015 and I'm very much looking forward visiting St Andrew's Sq, Calton, Bridgeton, and Camlachie where many of my family lived and worked. I'm also looking forward to find out more about 'Friends of the Weavers' and the 'martyrs' etc, given my family worked in this industry in the early 1800's. Actually if any contributors can help me out with information about places to visit/walking tours etc I'd be very grateful.

I've added an excerpt from the Post Office Directory 1860-61 which indicates the City Union Accommodation Co worked out of 24 St Andrew's Sq managed by William (last entry) and that William's house was at '23 do' (meaning ditto for St Andrew's Sq). James, William's younger brother also worked for the same company, and lived in 34 Clyde St Calton (a earlier entry on the same excerpt).

Thank you once again for the very helpful thread...

Excerpt Scottish Postal Directory 1860 - 23 St Andrew's Sq.png
Excerpt Scottish Postal Directory 1860 - 23 St Andrew's Sq
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