Glasgow Inner Ring Road

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Postby red_kola » Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:45 pm

Anybody know what they're doing to the site of the abandonned North Glasgow Motorway at the moment? If you're driving into Glasgow from the east and look up the sliproad to nowhere there is definately some construction work going on...
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Postby crusty_bint » Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:28 pm

Its a new housing development for Port Dundas, I believe they are also re-instating a lost link in the canal.
Last edited by crusty_bint on Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bruce » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:16 pm

Haven't you heard - Post Dundas is going to be come the “Glaswegian Venice”!

http://www.sundayherald.com/print46343

One of my mates used to work for Nicol Russel Architects in Dundee. When he first joined them he was working on the Falkirk Wheel (before RMJM got the job). Anyway a couple of years ago he told me he was working on a scheme to reconnect the canal at Port Dundas - I thought it was just a pipe dream, but right enough it now appear to be going ahead. And yet again RMJM seem to be doing it.

I haven't seen any piccys of what their doing yet.
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Postby mpcsmith » Wed Jan 12, 2005 11:44 am

interestingly glasgow wasnt the first city to have completely destroyed vast swathes of historic buildings for the sake of getting from A to B a bit quicker. The visionaries across the pond in Boston thought that it would be a famously good idea long before the city fathers here.

they decided to build an elevated highway straight through downtown Boston, nicknamed the green monster it is an easy match for the IRR. having decided in the 80's that this perhaps wasnt the best idea they ever had they are now rectifying the situation with a new underground highway nicknamed the big dig. this wont restore these buildings but atleast they wont have to look at a bloody great motorway out of their office windows.

check out these links for info on the project

history of central artery
http://www.massturnpike.com/bigdig/background/history.html

the big dig project
http://www.massturnpike.com/bigdig/background/#problem

one of the major points to note is the cost and time to completion of the project, it is phenomanally over budget and years late. its basically the millenium dome of Boston, at leats its got a point to it though.
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Postby john-g » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:04 pm

Difference being Boston learned from their mistakes, we're still making them. "Calls out M74 extension as first witness."

Didn't know about the residential at port Dundas, sounds fantastic. RMJM don't have anything on their website, strangely.
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Postby Closet Classicist » Thu Jan 13, 2005 9:44 am

Yes John it is frustrating how stuck in 1960's modes of thinking the city can be at times. M74 extension and the new east end road sum this up pretty well. Built to serve cars not people. As well as Boston (whose Big Dig approach while having useful lessons for us is prohibitively expensive) its interesting to come across this in US based New Urban News 2003 archives concerning moves made in Milwaukee to rid their downtown of the blight caused by urban freeways. Shouldn't this be telling Glasgow City Council something?

Freeway razing sets stage for $250 million in development

The Milwaukee Common Council approved a plan on June 15 for redeveloping a mile-long corridor on an edge of downtown where the blighting influence of the Park East Freeway has been eliminated. Demolition of the freeway spur was completed about five months ago, bringing to fruition a longtime goal of John Norquist, who served as Milwaukee’s mayor from 1988 until January of this year, when he resigned to head the Congress for New Urbanism.
Where the elevated freeway stood on downtown’s northern edge, a ground-level six-lane boulevard, McKinley Avenue, has been constructed, adorned with trees and flower beds in its median and with granite pavers and more trees between the roadway and the sidewalks. The boulevard provides an attractive new gateway to the downtown and is helping to attract redevelopment activity. “We anticipate at least $250 million of investment,” said Martha Brown, acting commissioner of the Milwaukee Department of City Development. “There’s already great interest from residential, office, mixed-use, and retail developers.”
The 16 acres that the freeway occupied and nearly 10 acres along its borders have been knit back together as approximately 28 traditional city blocks. Several streets that the freeway had cut off have been reconnected. A new Knapp Street lift bridge will be completed in August, spanning the Milwaukee River. The city’s RiverWalk, which runs along the river downtown, will be extended into the redevelopment area.
Altogether, the redevelopment plan covers 64 acres. Its design guidelines call for a distinctly urban environment, featuring buildings mostly 4 to 10 stories high, landmark buildings up to 20 stories, and rowhouses 3 stories high. The plan “tries to put most of the buildings up to the sidewalk,” said Senior Urban Planner Allison Rozek. “We want a strong street wall.”
On the most active streets, retail and other buildings must use plenty of glass to achieve transparency and visual interest. “There will be a lot of pedestrian activity in this corridor,” Rozek predicted. Four areas totaling about six acres have been designated as urban squares. After the plan’s adoption, developer Barry Mandel pledged the launch of a $100 million project that will replace a large tannery building with 500 condominium units and apartments overlooking the river. That seven-acre endeavor will include retail facing the street. Other developers are expected to build offices, shops, entertainment, and additional housing in the redevelopment area. Peter J. Park, planning director under Norquist and now manager of planning and development for Denver, told a CNU session in Chicago that the project demonstrates “the need to think about transportation and development simultaneously.” The cost of demolishing the freeway, constructing the boulevard, and building the new bridge was estimated at $25 million, the bulk of it paid for by the federal ISTEA transportation program. Once the project got moving, the city extended the demolition two more blocks to the west. That brought in more land and more than doubled the expected value of real estate development, according to the Department of City Development. It also boosted the city’s portion of the project’s cost to about $15 million. That sum will be recovered through a tax-increment financing (TIF) district in the redevelopment area.
Mayor Tom Barrett has requested that the plan’s land-use section be amended to bar new tax-exempt uses in the redevelopment area unless they’re approved by the Redevelopment Authority and the Council. Preventing tax-exempt development would ensure that the TIF district gets as much revenue as possible. Milwaukee County owns 16 of the acres to be developed, and the city owns less than 1 acre. Other land is owned by private owners, who have been in discussions about its development potential.
The county and the state governments contributed to the project’s cost. The city controlled the uses and design standards. “It’s been a long process,” said Rozek, noting that the city and the county worked together on the plan and on land disposition. “It took five years from saying publicly it’s something we should do to having a plan approved,” she said. “When dealing with multiple jurisdictions, you have to be patient and take time to bring them all in.”
Removal of the freeway is also expected to foster development of sites beyond the redevelopment area, such as Pabst City, a former brewery that is to become a combination of apartments, condo units, offices, retail, and entertainment venues.
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Postby escotregen » Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:50 pm

Hmm... reminds me of the Urban Summit in Birmingham a couple of years back. Two items especially stuck out in my mind.

First was an academic from San Francisco (maybe LA) talking about their big 'quake. One of his statistics was that when the local council decreed that extensive sections of the earthquake-damaged elevated freeway would not be rebuilt, the adjacent 'downtown' property values rocketed by around one third on the day of the announcement. The longer term outcome was a sustained regeneration of these previously motorway blighted neighbourhoods.

Second was the Mayor from Cleveland where they have achieved a city-wide regeneration success that has earned respect from many quarters. One of the main drivers (no pun intended) of this regeneration was the virtual abolition and large-scale demolition and removal of much of Cleveland's urban freeways and clearways.
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Postby Closet Classicist » Thu Jan 13, 2005 1:29 pm

That is extremely interesting escotregen. Will have a look into that. I have major reservations regarding how the M74 works at Eglinton Toll as it appears we haven't learnt anything from the way the west end and north of the city is disconnected by the M8 over and underpasses. Fairhurst's original document on how the resultant spaces beneath the overpass where to be treated is rather amusing in an ironic way. Cartoon sketches of happy pensioners idling away their time in a landscape of sculpture and vegetation. Of course we now know what the reality is. I'm sure skateboarders are happy but your average pedestrian? Interestingly enough though the M74 document does have the integrity to state that amenity at Eglinton Toll will be damaged but the solution adopted: environmental art features and landscaping; sounds remarkable similiar in approach to the late 60's! Deja vu? I know we need this connection for economic growth but does it have to take the form of an elevated inner urban motorway? What about a boulevard so at least links wouldn't be severed?

Judging from the plans for the new eastend road there doesn't seem to be much opportunity for pedestrians to get from one side to the other either.
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Postby crusty_bint » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:40 pm

Came across a few more images of the original plans:

Image
This model shows the proposals for the Laurieston/Gorbals CDA, prominently featuring the unbuilt south flank of the IRR.

These images are from the 'Highway Plan for Glasgow' 1965:

Image
And this one could have been taken from the current M74 site! This image is the view looking southwards down Eglinton St, round about Bedford St, with the elevated IRR passing overhead. The quote with it reads "tree and shrub planting from the river southward adjacent to the railway viaduct will produce a 'parkway' effect, greatly improving the amenity of this section of the city" ...erm, yeah!? :?

Image
This pic is the view of a pedestrian walkway under the motorway at Laurieston. "This is a typical example of how a motorway can be integrated with new development, by treating the differing architectural forms and landscaping as a whole" ...yeah, worked well that idea hasn't it? How so very naive.

Image
This is the view eastwards along the IRR through Laurieston, "This elevated section of motorway will provide many new and exciting glimpses of the city skyline". It was a brave vision, and did provide a solution to a major problem at the time, its just unfortunate construction of the IRR created more problems than it solved. Seems we still havent struck the right balance.

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Postby escotregen » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:55 pm

Closet I must have had a bit of a brainstorm on my earlier posting. where I mentioned Cleveland - it should have been Milwaukee, which is of course the example you cited. I hope I didn't send you off on a red herring.
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Postby Closet Classicist » Mon Jan 17, 2005 12:55 pm

Never mind escotregen! It was interesting to do some research on a city that I didn't know a lot about. Cleveland sounds similiar to Glasgow in parts and there are examples of regeneration there but Milwaukee is most useful for how to tackle inner city expressways (though I doubt this would work for an M8 ). Have descriptions but yet to come across any photos of their proposal though.

Crusty that model image of future Laurieston is great. Have the sketch perspectives already but would you mind if I use that one in my lecture?
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Postby Bella Houston » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:08 pm

AMcD wrote:Talking of futuristic schemes for regenerating Glasgow... have a look at this from the britishpathe.com site.

http://www.britishpathe.com/thumbnails.php?id=68985&searchfilm=kelvin

It shows a huge model (of Glasgow?) built in the Kelvin Hall.... Skyscraper city 8O

Download the free preview of the film, it's fascinating viewing.
Because of the stupid way i've linked to this, you have to click the view film bit and then navigate to the main page http://www.pathe.com and view the contents of your basket. Sorry. Couldn't find a better way! You have to fill in some details but it is free.



It's a scary vision. I'm pretty sure that this model was made to illustrate the Bruce Plan for post-war Glasgow redevelopment. The model looks very similar to the images from the plan that I've seen. Essentially Bruce proposed the demolition of almost the whole of the central Glasgow and rebuilding with apartment blocks similar to the 1960s Gorbals and Hutchesontown developments (now themselves demolished of course). His plans for buildings were not adopted, but Glasgow's motorways do in fact largely follow the routes originally suggested by Bruce so in that respect his plan has been influential. It's full name is "First planning report to the Highways and Planning Committee of Corporation of Glasgow", R Bruce, 1945, 2 volumes, Corportation of Glasgow - available in Mitchell Library. The second volume is a portfolio of perspective drawings which show buildings and layouts similar to the model in the Pathe film.
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Postby dazed_and_confused » Tue Oct 04, 2005 2:11 pm

james73 wrote:http://www.britishpathe.com/still_image.php?id=68985&frame=200&searchfilm=kelvin&size=d1 :? :? :?

What the hell's that supposed to be? No Central station was bad enough, but
where's that meant to be??


I think that pic looks like a modified Buchanan St Station, with the Motorway running past it. Have a look at the maps mentioned at the top here and you can see it's pretty similar.

The plans for Glasgow remind me in a way of the vision put forward in the 30s film Metropolis. Quite scary! 8O

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Postby Alycidon » Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:19 pm

Is that not the "Glasgow North" station project from the 1950s, the drawings for which were posted by James73 in another Thread?? (Can't find it now)
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Postby Alycidon » Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:22 pm

Found it!! >clicky< Compare this with the British Pathe image, striking similarities. Note also the line of the "Arterial Road"
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