Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby DMcNay » Mon Nov 03, 2008 11:57 pm

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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby Dugald » Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:04 pm

A fine piece of sleuthing DMcNay. It seems pretty doubtful at this late date as to whether any immediate members of the Paterson family will ever be found, but as you say, "if anyone can find this guys family, this lot will".The information about which regiment Pvt. Paterson belonged to is clearly explained; not that I think this will give the French people much help, but it does explain the difference between the article and the picture.
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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby Vinegar Tom » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:14 pm

Not sure if this is the correct thread , but it deals with military Glasgow history.

159 Butterbiggins Road , Govanhill.

This building in Govanhill has lost part of it's signage to reveal stone carved lettering underneath.
At one side the carving probably says "1st" and at the other shows "er artillery" - I'm no expert , but that probably indicates "1st something volunteer artillery",

The carving and architecture looks like early 20th centuary to me , but the only reference I can find is later:
"According to the Glasgow Post Office Directory's listing of Territorial Army units for 1939 the 80th (Lowland) Field Regiment, Royal Artillery had its headquarters at 21 Taylor Street, Townhead, Glasgow G2.
The batteries comprising the Regiment (or at least those located in the city) were the 317th with HQ at 138 Berkeley Street, Glasgow C3 (Guns at Hotspur St. Maryhill) and 319th with HQ at 159 Butterbiggins Road, Glasgow S2 (Guns at Taylor St.) I assume that there was a 318th Battery located somewhere outside the city."

http://www.network54.com/Forum/6243/message/1058740014/re+Royal+Artillery+Volunteers

I'm guessing , but the wooden huts at the side have to be original?

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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby Dugald » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:28 am

You're definitely in the correct thread VT, this does deal with Glasgow's military history. I don't recall this building at all, but there appears to be little doubt that it was a military drill hall. Only the part of the building that looks like the main entrance has the customary look of a drill hall, but there is no mistaking the meaning of the stone lettering still visible in the pictures.

Yes, as you point out, the wooden huts at the side have the appearance of WWII military huts, but would they have lasted such a long time in such good condition. It's hard to say
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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby curly sue » Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:41 pm

Hi there,

I was wondering if anyone can help me, I am looking for some information for a friend who's family once lived in the Shawfield Camps on Rutherglen Road, during WWII.
She is trying to research her family and has very little information on the camps, we would be greatful for any type of information/photo's, it would be much appreciated.

Thanks :D
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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby Dugald » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:39 am

CS, I cannot help you specifically, but I am aware of the sort of place your friend is talking about. In 1945 during the closing days of the war a number of displaced people were brought to the UK from Western Europe and some were housed around the Glasgow area in makeshift camps, as well as a lot of other places. At the end of the war these people moved on and the camps were empty for a while, then squatters, most of them demobbed servicemen moved into them. There was lots of public support for these squatters.

I recall coming into Glasgow from the Larkhall area and onto Rutherglen Rd.and seeing these squatters moving around the camps. Empty mansions along the way had also been occupied by ex-forces squatters. It was just the same on the back road into Glasgow from Stewarton... the big houses along this road, within the city, which were empty were soon occupied by these ex-military squatters.

The only displaced-person camp I was actually in was the one in Neilston...not all that far from the Shawfield/ Rutherglen Road area you mention. After the DP's moved out the huts were soon occupied, but they were I think, actually allocated to ex-service people this time by the municipality. The one I was in was quite a nice place with all the modern conveniences, and looked very comfortable... far better than a single end on Golspie St!
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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby Peekay » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:52 pm

Socceroo wrote:[ 8O You of all people Dugald should have no objection to the Memorial for the Andorra Star, perhaps that is why you really left the discussion?


There's already numerous memorials dotted about the place for this ship.....and if it worries you that much then you might at least show your own wee bit of respect and get the name of the Arandora Star right.

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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby Dugald » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:42 pm

Peekay wrote:
Socceroo wrote:[ 8O You of all people Dugald should have no objection to the Memorial for the Andorra Star, perhaps that is why you really left the discussion?

There's already numerous memorials dotted about the place for this ship.....and if it worries you that much then you might at least show your own wee bit of respect and get the name of the Arandora Star right.
PK

Geez PK, you'll have to explain why you dug up this fossil in connection with CS's enquiry ; surely you did this inadvertently...

OOPS! I got it, you just came across my incorrect spelling of the Arand.., Andor..., Anwit..., uch , ye know whit a mean!
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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby Peekay » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:21 pm

No D. It wasn't directed at yourself. It was directed at the one's that were going on about how there should be a Glasgowmemorial because they deemed it such an important event to themselves yet they couldn't even get the neame right.

Not you as I said!

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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby Dugald » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:06 pm

Phew! PK, that's a relief. I had to go back and reread some of the old postings to check out which name I had used when i introduced the topic... happily I used Arandora Star , the correct name as you point out. There was I not long after having corrected another fossil, a really old fossil, on a posting by Mori ,and here i was , guilty of exactly the same fault. I had intended to quote Mori with his, I am but only human, we all make mistakes. Now I don't have to, well not so far today anyway... we'll leave it for Socceroo.
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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby Peekay » Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:32 pm

Name Arandora Star
Type: Steam passenger ship
Tonnage 15,501 tons (one of the largest ships sunk).
Completed 1927 - Cammell Laird & Co Ltd, Birkenhead
Owner Blue Star Line Ltd, London
Homeport London
Date of attack 2 Jul, 1940
Nationality: British

Fate Sunk by U-47 ( Günther Prien)
Position 55.20N, 10.33W - Grid AM 5116

Complement 1673 (805 dead and 868 survivors).
Convoy
Route Liverpool (30 Jun) - St. Johns, Canada
Cargo 1299 internees and prisoners-of-war
History Completed in May 1927 as Arandora, 1929 renamed Arandora Star and converted to a cruising ship.

Notes on loss At 07.58 hours on 2 Jul, 1940, the unescorted Arandora Star (Master Edgar Wallace Moulton) was hit by one torpedo from U-47 about 125 miles west by north of Malin Head, Co. Donegal and foundered later in 56°30N/10°38W. The ship had 479 German internees, 734 Italian internees, 86 German prisoners-of-war and 200 military guards on board. The master, 12 officers, 42 crewmen, 37 guards, 470 Italians and 243 Germans were lost. 119 crew members, 163 guards and 586 Italians and Germans were picked up by HMCS St. Laurent (H 83) (Cdr H.G. De Wolf, RCN) and landed at Greenock.
The master Edgar Wallace Moulton was posthumously awarded the Lloyd´s Wat Medal for bravery at sea.

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info taken from http://www.uboat.net/index.html
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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby Dugald » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:19 pm

Good picture PK, and it's still interesting stuff. Yes, and a bitter tragedy. In reading here about the number of survivors picked up, I find it hard to imagine how the captain of the HMCS St. Laurent was able to pick up 868 survivors. Geez, this ship, the HMCS St. Laurent, was only a destroyer; where the heck did they put all these survivors... she must have been loaded to the gunnels. Note too, that over 700 of the survivors were German or Italian, greatly outnumbering the guards plus the crew of the St. Laurent. Anyway, it was a really good piece of work.

If any consolation is needed, let's just recall that Gunther Prien , the hotshot German sub commander who sank the ill-fated Arandora Star, did eventually get his comeuppance... and there were no survivors from this sinking.
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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby red_kola » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:10 pm

Dugald wrote:and there were no survivors from this sinking.

Indeed. Let us 'rejoice' at that fact. :roll:
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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby Dugald » Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:48 pm

red_kola wrote:
Dugald wrote:and there were no survivors from this sinking.

Indeed. Let us 'rejoice' at that fact. :roll:


Dugald also prefaced this fact, the one for which you request our company in rejoicing, with the words, "If any consolation is needed,...", suggesting therefore, that there may well be those among us who are disdainful of such rejoicing.

Anyway RK, I feel your comment merits at least, a tousché .
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Re: Wartime Glasgow--Excluding bombing.

Postby Socceroo » Wed May 27, 2009 9:21 pm

Peekay wrote:
Socceroo wrote:[ 8O You of all people Dugald should have no objection to the Memorial for the Andorra Star, perhaps that is why you really left the discussion?


There's already numerous memorials dotted about the place for this ship.....and if it worries you that much then you might at least show your own wee bit of respect and get the name of the Arandora Star right.

PK


Not been on here often, but when i read posts like this from dickheads like you then I realise why I am not on here often.
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