The Hidden Glasgow Forums

Radio 4's today programme had a bit this morning on street names that could be changed as a result of changed thinking from when the streets were originally named. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/

They gave Stalin Road in Colchester as an example. They also mentioned a Havelock Street in Leicester - Havelock was a British general invoved in trying to quell the Indian Mutiny. Glasgow's Havelock Street is of course in Partick.

So are any other streets in Glasgow that if we were really that bothered should have their name changed as a result of a change we think about events in history?

Stalin Road

Easy, rename it Lenin Road.

Vladimir wrote:Easy, rename it Lenin Road.

Aye, or MacCartney Street!

The thing is Penny Lane is famous for the Beatles song rather than for any association with slave traders. Indeed, I wonder how many people knew, or cared, about that until now.

I would be loathe to start changing names on the say-so of overpaid cooncillors whose contribution to the city is negligible compared to those the streets are named after. And you would inevitably end up pandering to the narrow political agenda or whichever was in vogue at the time - Nelson Mandela Place, for example.

Don't know the origin of Glasgow street names - someone posted a website on here a couple of weeks ago (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/gordon.adams1/GlasgowHistory/StreetNames.htm) so I daresay someone could look through that and find something objectionable.

There is a part of Paris known as Le Kremlin-Bicetre. There is another part, Bobigny, which has a Boulevard Lenine, Rue Stalingrad and an Avenue Karl Marx! Oh and an Avenue Youri Gagarine plus an Avenue du President Salvador Allende. You might not be surprised to hear that it is a Communist Commune...

tedmaul wrote: you would inevitably end up pandering to the narrow political agenda or whichever was in vogue at the time - Nelson Mandela Place, for example.

met a bloke from South Africa many years ago, and the only thing he actually knew about Glasgow was that there was a place named after nelson mandela.

He was well impressed when he was told why it had its name changed.

tedmaul wrote: cooncillors

Simulated accent or not, I don't think that's very PC.

On thread - what about all the tobacco-related street names in Glasgow? Aren't those breaking the advertising ban?

JayKay wrote: met a bloke from South Africa many years ago, and the only thing he actually knew about Glasgow was that there was a place named after nelson mandela.

Good for your SA friend. However, to the majority of Glaswegians, Nelson Mandela meant diddly squat. It was simply employees of the State imposing their political agenda on the people who pay their wages. That would be the problem of allowing said employees to revisit Glasgow street names en masse.

TommyDGNR8 wrote:

tedmaul wrote: cooncillors

Simulated accent or not, I don't think that's very PC.

Why?

Mmm

nelson Mandela Place or St George's Place? I know which one makes me proud to be Glaswegian..

"However, to the majority of Glaswegians, Nelson Mandela meant diddly squat."

Eh!!

So I take it you weren't there when Nelson Mandela got the freedom of the city. You didn't see George Square being full of people to see the event. You didn't see huge anti-apartheid demos in Glasgow Green just after the Free Nelson Mandela gigs in Wembley.

Part of the point of renaming St George's Place, Nelson Mandela PLace was because the South African government had a consulate there. The thinking was that they would be forced to recognise Mandela because he was still imprisoned at the time. A small gesture that meant a lot to those who were against apartheid in South Africa. It really annoyed the South African government as well - so for that it gets my full support.


Anyway back to the point of the post - I was really wondering about streets that were named after events or people in history that are not in favour any more - Glasgow used to be known as a proud supporter of Empire, so there are probably a lot of streets whose honorable history isn't so honorable now.

Seamey wrote: So I take it you weren't there when Nelson Mandela got the freedom of the city. You didn't see George Square being full of people to see the event.

That was after the event. Mid-1990's, IIRC. The fact is that when it was named, very few could have told you who he was.

Seamey wrote:Part of the point of renaming St George's Place, Nelson Mandela PLace was because the South African government had a consulate there.

That's right. It was the sort of petty 'Wolfie Smith' rubbish you would expect from those in the City Chambers. Presumably they paid the full costs of businesses in the former St. George's Place who had to reprint their stationery, etc. thanks to the cooncillors political grandstanding. No?

Seamey wrote: Glasgow used to be known as a proud supporter of Empire, so there are probably a lot of streets whose honorable history isn't so honorable now.

In whose opinion, though. I guess that's the fundamental problem. Who owns the past? Who decides?

I would prefer a positive campaign which sought to name or rename streets in Glasgow after notable Glaswegians or Scotspeople whose lives and achievements are globally recognised. Then again, knowing the City Chambers buffoons, we'd have Donald bloody Dewar Street rather than Adam Smith Street. Ho hum.

Adam Smith Street.

What a great guy, eh! Or we could alternatively have Karl Marx Street. I tell you what, we will have one of each, two roads that meet at a square. Then name that 'Ideology Square'!

Sorry to go off topic a bit, but did the South African consulate use the new Nelson Mandela Sq name on their official letters, or continue to use St. George's Place ?

tedmaul wrote:
That was after the event. Mid-1990's, IIRC. The fact is that when it was named, very few could have told you who he was.

Hmm I was 13 in 1986 when said place was re-named and I knew who he was and I lived in the sticks.

Tedmaul stick your narrow political perspective beside your Hang Nelson mandela T Shirt. It wasn't just Glasgow Councillors who came up with the idea. Bob Gray was the Lord provost not exactly a left winger. Before that Micahel Kelly was provost when Mandela was made a freeman of the city.
As he put it

"Glasgow has a long history of liberal traditions. from supporting the nineteenth century political reformers Cobden and Bright to the present day."


You may have gathered that some of the ordinary working class people on this board can read, think and know who Nelson Mandela was and even admire him. Using a similar lack of evidence as you have assembled I would conclude you still believe he was a terrorist too.

The Anti Apartheid movement was strong in Glasgow, it was supported by most of the unions and most of the Scottish political parties. Maybe not yours.

BTW did your family have servants when you lived there?