The Carrick/City of Adelaide

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Postby McShad » Mon May 28, 2007 11:13 pm

I agree with the bigwigs on this one... it is beyond restoration now. The wood is likely rotten to the core and none of it can be saved. The frame is probably paper thin by now, so thin and decayed, you could punch holes in it with your fist.
It's a tragic lose, but we have to accept it and move on.... build a replica by all means, just not with public money
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Postby DickyHart » Mon May 28, 2007 11:50 pm

gcc where never interested in her.
Is this gonna be a standup fight, sir, or another bughunt?
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Postby Graham » Tue May 29, 2007 12:03 am

If the frame is anything like the woodwork then the best thing would be to remove all the salvageable parts and sink it somewhere for Scottish divers to enjoy, sad but better than nothing :cry:
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Postby nodrog » Tue May 29, 2007 11:30 am

Is it just me being naive, but wouldn't putting her *under cover* 15 years ago while they tried to figure out how to raise the cash have been a good idea... ??!
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Postby crusty_bint » Tue May 29, 2007 11:46 am

The decision has been made.... sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee's gone.
here i go, it's coming for me through the trees
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Postby Graham » Tue May 29, 2007 1:58 pm

crusty_bint wrote:The decision has been made.... sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee's gone.


Says who? Ugh :x : :roll: :cry: I asked yesterday and was told nothing was being done about it for 2 years.....mind you that was the wee wummin in the tea shop that told me that ::):
Last edited by Graham on Tue May 29, 2007 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby glasgowken » Tue May 29, 2007 2:02 pm

She probably knows more than the chairman.
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Postby Graham » Tue May 29, 2007 2:16 pm

glasgowken wrote:She probably knows more than the chairman.


no doubt (He said, editing his post to quickly add a :x or a :roll: or even a :cry: or all three before C_B seeks to vent her wrath on me :) ) but the timing smacked of it just being a veiled threat to try and squeeze some cash out of the government, maybe it was just a huge coincidence after all :wink:
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Postby cozycoupe » Tue May 29, 2007 4:37 pm

what a slide show........tragic but beautiful.....
if i win the euro lottery i'm looking for a boat :P
beyond that I'v no ideas.......its a disgrace whats happened to it!
ps...thanks for apology crusty bint....i'm having a glass of wine after a hard day and god knows what crap I'll be writing in a wee while!!
Cheers all
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Postby Gteman » Tue May 29, 2007 6:10 pm

I was just watching the news on the cutty sark and they said the main structure is iron. There seems to be no shortage of funds for her :evil:
I don't know the first thing about boats tho both being the same types of ship from the same era would the Carrick not be iron hulled (if thats the correct expression) as well ?
The Carrick may never sail again if not surely she could be fixed up as a visitor attraction in a dry dock or museum somewhere.
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Postby crusty_bint » Tue May 29, 2007 6:24 pm

They are both composite hulls of wood and wrought iron and the only two left on the planet (dunno if anyone missed that?). The Carrick is actually 5 years older than the Cutty Sark.

Shit innit.
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Postby Graham » Tue May 29, 2007 7:56 pm

crusty_bint wrote:They are both composite hulls of wood and wrought iron and the only two left on the planet (dunno if anyone missed that?). The Carrick is actually 5 years older than the Cutty Sark.

Shit innit.


On the other hand, if Glasgow had actually had the one that belonged to her - the Cutty Sark, then she would be the one rotting away in Irvine and the Carrick would have been gutted by fire (or probabaly not as she would have been in Adelaide) instead.

Interestingly I found THIS article from February 2006 (see below if you can't be bothered clicking) which sounds awfully like the same stuff that was quoted in the press last week:

Carrick becomes an abandoned ship Oldest surviving clipper will now be broken up

(The Herald Via Thomson Dialog NewsEdge) EFFORTS to save the world's oldest surviving clipper and preserve a major piece of maritime history have finally run aground.

An application has now been made to break up the 142-yearold Carrick, whose rusting hulk has lain on a slipway in Irvine harbour since it sank in Glasgow in 1992.

The Scottish Maritime Museum, which owns the craft, had hoped to restore it as a passenger-carrying ship and tourist attraction.

But a feasibility study has concluded that an overhaul of the A-listed vessel, originally called the City of Adelaide, would be impracticable. Even if it were to be turned into a static museum display, the amount of replacement work needed would render it "little more than a reproduction".

Mike Edwards, the Midlands businessman who commissioned the survey in July 2003, said yesterday that he was disappointed by its findings.

He said: "Unfortunately, the consultants' report demonstrates that (restoring the ship) simply cannot be achieved without destroying its integrity as a genuine restored historic ship.

"For example, the ironwork of the original hull is now so weak that it would have to be replaced in its entirety and the same applies to the hull timber.

"In short, there would be so little left . . . that it would be little more than a reproduction and, as I clearly indicated back in 2003, that is not what we have been seeking to achieve."

The study revealed that the cost of converting the Carrick to a static museum exhibit would be around GBP10m, twice the estimate given in 1995.

However, Christopher Mason, chairman of the Clyde Maritime Trust, said this was a reasonable amount, in keeping with the cost of similar restorations of classic nineteenth-century vessels.

He said: "I don't regard GBP10m as an outrageous amount. The City of Adelaide is an important part of Scotland's maritime history. I do worry about the way that vessels are let go. I hope that Scottish ministers and the Westminster government will consider whether, in 20 years' time, we feel happy to have the ship restored to a suitable and adequate condition or have a collection of photographs."

The museum has applied to Historic Scotland for approval to dismantle the Carrick, which was built in 1864 in Sunderland. Its record for sailing the 12,000 miles from Britain to Adelaide, Australia, still stands. The vessel is one of two surviving clippers in the UK. It was based at Broomielaw in Glasgow for 50 years but was towed to Irvine and placed on the Ayrshire Metal Products' slipway in 1991.

Mr Edwards had previously hoped to buy the boat if its restoration proved feasible.

Sam Galbraith, the former health minister who is now chairman of the Scottish Maritime Museum, said the preferable option was for the ship to be "deconstructed" and its parts kept as exhibits.

"By implementing a programme of recorded deconstruction, we would be recording City of Adelaide and ensuring her place in history.

"The old lady would be consigned to maritime history with dignity and purpose and that must be infinitely better than watching her rotting, " he said.

Other parties from Sunderland and Adelaide who were interested in acquiring the ship would be unlikely to generate enough funding, Mr Galbraith added".


So it remains to be seen if the "Trustees" really will carry out their threat and break the old girl up.
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Postby e2wufos1 » Tue May 29, 2007 9:43 pm

I've been following this discussion on the message board of the Scotsman Newspaper http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=787422007 just scroll past the news article about the Cutty Sark and you'll see it.

Why not air your views on there as well.
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Postby Graham » Tue May 29, 2007 10:08 pm

e2wufos1 wrote:I've been following this discussion on the message board of the Scotsman Newspaper http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=787422007 just scroll past the news article about the Cutty Sark and you'll see it.

Why not air your views on there as well.


Posting has closed for comments but there is some interesting stuff there

The Carrick/City of Adelaide

Her plight

The ship’s difficulties began when she sank at her moorings in 1989.

Fortunately she was soon given protection under planning laws by being A-Listed, the highest ranking possible, but she was beyond the resources of the dwindling RNVR Club to refurbish and passed into the hands of developers.

After being moved downstream to Prince’s Dock at Govan, Glasgow, she sank in mysterious circumstances on the very eve of the opening of a public inquiry into the proposed development.

She then lay at great risk for over a year with only her upperworks showing at low tide.
A rescue package was mounted by the Scottish Maritime Museum and she was raised, moved to Irvine and in 1992 was drawn onto dry land on a slipway modified and extended to carry her.

Unfortunately the only place where this could be done was on a small part of ground adjacent to the Museum which is the property of the Ayrshire Metals Company, now AMP plc, who were then operating a factory there, and a lease was agreed.

Work began on the preparations for restoration, which included the removal of a concrete lining in her hold which had been keeping her watertight. In the mid-1990s the winding-up of Irvine Development Corporation and tightening of the NAC budgets caused funding of the Museum virtually to dry up, and all work ceased on the ship.

The AMP lease was free for the first five years, by which time it had been expected that the hull would have been returned to the water, but when the period elapsed the rental became a swingeing £50,000 per annum.

This the Museum was not in a position to pay, but as a liability it brought them close to bankruptcy. Hence the first application to demolish.

Its rejection left the Museum still teetering towards bankruptcy, small grants from NAC and the Scottish Executive keeping it just solvent.

Attempts to resolve the AMP problem were unsuccessful. The ship’s financial situation was transformed, however, when Mike Edwards, a wealthy entrepreneur in the travel industry, appeared out of the blue and offered a donation of £400,000, ring-fenced to the ship, in return for an option whilst he investigated possibilities for her future.

Even with this money available it proved impossible to negotiate a settlement with AMP.
Most of it remains untouched, the only significant expenditure having been to fit a membrane over the maindeck, poop and forecastle to render them watertight.

This proved highly successful, and the interior was at last able to dry-out.

The application
It is now clear that there is no possibility of the ship remaining where she is, and it is understood that AMP will permit removal provided a target date is fixed.

Beyond whatever settlement is agreed for the outstanding rent heavy penalties would be imposed for late removal which would perhaps take the total costs beyond the remains of the £400,000 and bankrupt the Museum.

The Trustees regard the uncertainties of a project to remove the ship by returning her to the water as such that the only course which would not risk bankruptcy would be to carry out a controlled demolition, in which archaeological information about the ship’s construction of scholarly interest would be obtained and parts retained for display at Irvine and other Museums.

Hence the present application.

Reasons for rejection
An important point to be borne in mind is that no consent for the demolition of an A-Listed building has ever been submitted, let alone granted, in Scotland apart from these two, and the first to be accepted would be a worrying precedent to all with an interest in the built heritage.

She would also be the first of the Core Collection to be lost.

That she is of international, indeed world, significance, would make the precedents even more disturbing, as well as a disgrace to Scotland.

It must also be noted that planning law is such that the applicant has the option of appealing if a planning proposal is turned down, but the objectors do not if it is accepted.

So it is important that there are as many objections as possible, as there may be only the one opportunity to protest.

NAC do not have the power to agree to demolition, but if they were ‘minded to accept’, as the Act says, the application would have to go via Historic Scotland to the Minister, who could either take a decision or call for a Reporter’s Inquiry.

This makes strong objections even more important, as it is essential that, if the worst comes to the worst, the application is taken to the wire and arguments pro and con aired publicly at a dispassionate inquiry.

It is also to be noted that the Trustees have made application for a process which they may well not have the funds to carry out, indeed it is anticipated that an application may have to be made to the Heritage Lottery Fund.

Demolition of so rare a heritage artifact would be a poor use of such funds.

The Chairman of the Trustees has been quoted in the press as saying that it is better to give the ship a dignified ‘deconstruction’ rather than to see her rotting away.

Only in Scotland....

That application has now been granted to 'scrap' her and put some bits in a museum as yet to be anounced.

Scotland hang your head in shame.


Being an "A" listed building is no protection - look what GCC did to Alexander Thomson's Queens Park Terrace :roll:
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Postby McShad » Tue May 29, 2007 10:45 pm

I'm very insulted by that comment 'Scotland hang your head in shame'

How dare anyone hold the entire country liable like that
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