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PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 5:26 pm
by Pgcc93
engineer wrote:i remember hearding a story about a farm in the lanark/carstairs area being bombed. think the story went that bombers were returning home over this area and the farmer had left lights on in a barn, making it easy to see.
not sure why bomber would be returning laden with bombs (dont know how many) as id imagine a run aborted for bad weather etc would have been called off long before they were over scotland.

I heard a similar story along those lines and you can visibly make out signs of at least 4 bomb craters on a hillside (near Tinto Hill?) that you can see from the Glasgow- London train.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:28 pm
by My Kitten
should we try and do a wee area each to help the research along? I think this is an excellent idea and would be a good thing to have.

Any thoughts?

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:17 pm
by Armadillo
Seamey wrote:The site at the bottom corner of Fergus Drive and Wilton Street was bombed


This is the site of the Wilton Street bombing - actually the corner of Wilton Street/Queen Margaret Drive and Queen Margaret Road. If you look at the tenements, you'll notice that the nearer block is of a very modern style, compared with the one further away. This is because it was a post-war replacement and, incidentally, one of the last red sandstone tenements built in Glasgow.


This view from the opposite angle (looking up QM Road towards QM Drive) is on the Virtual Mitchell, dated 1914.


I think this raid was in 1941, and at the time it was assumed they were trying to hit the BBC, which was unscathed.

I was also told by someone who grew up in Fergus Drive immediately after the war that the kids used to play in the ruins of two big houses which had been bombed. This would have been roughly where Fergus Court and Clouston Court are now. There were certainly houses there, according to old maps, but I've never been able to find any reference to their being bombed.

The bombing of Dudley Drive in Hyndland is well-documented. I was told that during that raid, a bomb fell through the stairwell of a tenement in Polwarth Street, but didn't explode. The bomb disposal guys apparently detonated it in such a way that the blast went upwards, leaving the shell of the building; the inside was then rebuilt, and it still stands.

The bridge across the Kelvin at Kelvin Way (near the Art Gallery) was bombed - there's a wee plaque on it commemorating the restoration of the scupltures which were damaged.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:38 pm
by Socceroo
Fascinating stuff the recent posts on the Junkers 88 going down at Blairskaith Muir and also the account of another bomber unloading its bombs over the Carstairs area.

As per My Kittens suggestion it certainly would be helpful if anyone is particularly interested in this topic for them to research a particular area or event.

I have been revisiting Gordon R Urquhart's excellent book "Along Great Western Road" to refresh my memory of the bombs that fell in the West End :

"In March 1941, on the second devastating night of the Clydeside Blitz, Kelvindale was one of many isolated parts of Western Glasgow that suffered extensive damage from stray Luftwaffe land mines (Dowanhill, North Kelvinside and Hyndland - where 36 died in Dudley Drive and Airlie Street - were also badly effected).

All the windows in St Johns Renfield (with exception of the decorative glass) were blown out in the blast of the mine which hit Kelvindale. During the raid, several houses were destroyed or badly damaged in Leicester Avenue and Chelmsford Drive and nine people were killed."

St Johns Renfield is the church which sits prominently on Beaconsfield Road.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:41 pm
by My Kitten

Am I correct in thinking that the red line I have drawn on would be the railway line and the green line follows Dumbarton Road? If so the fuel depot would be where Mountblow is. Does anyone know when the housing here was built?

I feel a library trip coming on this week...

Ive just found a list of civilian casualties for Clydebank, I'll try and reconcile them with a map of clydebank from the time to see whats gone.


PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:58 pm
by Socceroo
I M M McPhails book "The Clydebank Blitz" is a comprehensive account of the bombing on Clydebank.

It gives eye witness accounts and details the location of just about every bomb dropped on the burgh and their devastating effect.

It gives the horrific details of the casualties of the blitz name by name, their ages and their addresses. In many instances entire families were wiped out.

It is certainly worth a read. It is quite chilling when you realise such horrors took place so close to home over our now peaceful skies.

Can you imagine the fear going to bed on a clear night under a "bombers moon" realising that the Luftwaffe could strike.

On the subject of the Glasgow bombings within the city boundary, i did enquire of the Mitchell Library sometime ago, if they had a comprehensive list of bombs which had fallen on Glasgow.

I was advised that they had quite a lot of information, but it had not necessarily been pulled together into a complete account in the same way that the Clydebank Blitz had been.

Interestingly, i was pointed towards Glasgow Cathedral whom apparently have rememberance books for those lost in the Glasgow bombings.

This is a lead that i never got round to following up.

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:07 pm
by yoker brian
The Fuel depot that My kitten refers to was known as The Admiralty Fuel Storage Depot.

As Schiehallion mentions in his post - you can quiet clearly see the position of storage tanks on the riverside - line this up with the aerial photograph and it would appear that the main tank farm was located where the modern housing estate is now.

See this link for more info

PostPosted: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:57 pm
by Schiehallion
yoker brian wrote:The Fuel depot that My kitten refers to was known as The Admiralty Fuel Storage Depot.

As Schiehallion mentions in his post - you can quiet clearly see the position of storage tanks on the riverside - line this up with the aerial photograph and it would appear that the main tank farm was located where the modern housing estate is now.

You can see the estate following the same route aroung the Dalnottar Cemetery as the main fuel depot did.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:27 am
by escotregen
SOCCEROO just a couple of points following on from you'r earlier posting. Like you I find it amazing to read about the bombing of civilians and everday 'real ordinary life' buildings and places in such recent history - this is one aspect of WW2 that really fascinates me; on top of which for most people, even those living in the same streets that were bombed, it's all now forgotten.

On your comment about the Mitchell library having the information, but it not being collated or very accessible; I find this a frustrating thing with the Mitchell, a virtual treasure and the staff do (mostly) try to help, but it is starved of resources.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:25 pm
by My Kitten
I've just marked on a map the streets of clydebank that got bombed, basically around Beardmores and Radnor Park/ Singers got obliterated.


PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 7:52 pm
by Socceroo
If you go on a visit to Clydebank today and take a walk around with a pre war map it quicky becomes evident even today, of the scale of devastation encountered in the town.

If you were to go today to Clydebank and walk around the town with a map of all the bombsites it would make the hairs on the back of your neck stand.

I borrowed the following passages from Dominic D'Angelo's talk to the Alexander Thomson Society on the 25th March 1993 - the 50th Anniversary of the loss of the Queens Park Church.

I have read some of the following words by him elsewhere also, it is the only words that i have found so far which recognise the full extent of the bombing over Glasgow :

"If Clydebank has become synonymous with air raid damage, it's not, however, an accurate reflection. A 'secret' report by the Office of the Regional Commissioner, now held in the Scottish Office archives, reports 'The grievous nature of the damage at Clydebank... has tended to veil the magnitude of the attack on Glasgow.'

The city's archives contain a bomb damage map drawn up in October 1941 drawn up by the Glasgow Master of Works and City Engineer: it reveals damage to have been well scattered throughout the city from Tradeston, Garscadden and Yoker (severe damage) to Dalmarnock, Hutchesontown, Partick, Hyndland and Kelvinside. The gap sites remaining today, the lesser quality infill buildings which, for many of us, tend to be thought of as a result of 1970s demolition of tenements before renovation became the order of the day, were often created not by the Glasgow Corporation but the German Luftwaffe."

"During two nights in March Glasgow lost 647 dead and 1,680 injured, with 6,835 houses damaged severely, and 20,000 others with minor damage. Yarrow's and Blythswood's shipyards at Scotstoun were badly damaged, but, in contrast to Clydebank, damage was widespread throughout the city. In Maryhill three tenements were destroyed and 100 people injured. At Yarrow's 80 people died after their shelter sustained a direct hit."

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:05 pm
by My Kitten
List of streets that were bombed in Clydebank that are on the civilian casualty list

1 Spencer Street.
10 Broom Drive.
10 Burns Street, Dalmuir.
10 Church Street.
10 Pattison Street.
10 Spencer Street.
11 Second Avenue.
12 Beatty Street.
12 Pattison street.
131 Dumbarton Road.
14 Beatty Street.
14 Broom Drive.
14 Greer Quadrant.
158A Second Avenue.
159 Second Avenue.
16 Alder Street.
161 Second Avenue.
163 Second Avenue.
18 Broom Drive.
18 Limetree Drive
19 Beech Drive.
19 Beech Drive.
2 Castle Street.
2 Napier Street.
25 Graham Avenue.
27 Graham Avenue.
3 Browns Buildings.
3 First Street.
3 Second Terrace.
31 Livingston Street.
32 Park Road.
39 John Knox Street.
4 Greer Quad.
4 Napier Street.
4 Napier Street.
4 Second Terrace.
4 Whin Street.
425 Dumbarton Road.
425 Glasgow Road.
425 Second Avenue.
43 Whin Street.
431 Glasgow Road.
433 Dumbarton Road.
5 Hornbeam Drive.
57 Whitecrook Street.
57 Whitecrook Street.
59 Whitecrook Street.
6 Hawthorn Street.
6 Hornbeam Drive.
60 Radnor Street.
61 Whitecrook Street.
62 Radnor Street.
64 Crown Avenue.
66 Crown Avenue.
672 Dumbarton Road.
69 Livingstone Street.
7 Spencer Street.
7 Beardmore Street.
7 Pattison Street.
72 Jellicoe Street, Dalmuir.
72 Second Avenue.
72 Second Avenue.
74 Second Avenue.
76 Second Avenue.
76B Second Avenue.
775 Dumbarton Road.
78 Clarence Street.
78 Jellicoe Street, Dalmuir.
78 Second Avenue.
78 Second Avenue.
781 Dumbarton Road.
8 Napier Street.
8 Rowan Drive.
80 Second Avenue.
871 Dumbarton Road.
9 Birch Road.
9 Pattison Street.
9 Pattison Street.
Beardmore Basin, Dalmuir.
Beardmore Basin, Dalmuir.
Beardmore Street.
Beardmore's Works, Dalmuir.
Benbow Hotel Dalmuir.
Broom Drive.
Burn Street shelter.
Castle Street.
Church Street shelter.
Church Street.
Diesel Works.
Galbraith's Store, Napier Street.
Hotel, Miller Street.
Janetta Street
Jellicoe Street, Dalmuir.
La Scala Picture House.
Napier Street.
Ordnance Factory, Dalmuir.
Ordnance Factory, Dalmuir.
Ordnance Factory, Dalmuir.
Pattison Street, Dalmuir.
Royal Ordnance Factory, Dalmuir.
Second Avenue.
Second Avenue.
Second Terrace.
Spencer Street.
Spencer Street.
the Crescent, Dalmuir.
Thistle Street,
Warden's Post Janetta Street.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:06 pm
by Vladimir
:o 8O

PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:27 pm
by Pgcc93
My Kitten wrote:List of streets that were bombed in Clydebank that are on the civilian casualty list

72 Jellicoe Street, Dalmuir.

Was this not the street where one family suffered the highest casualty rate with the loss of several generations that night?


PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2005 11:23 pm
by Socceroo
Fourteen members of the Rocks family were killed at 78 Jellicoe Street their ages ranged from 5 months old to 54 years old.