Bombs over Glasgow in WW2

[Apollo]

The Portkil battery featured here a while back, unfortunately the pics are locked up in film as the visit was pre-digital:

http://www.hiddenglasgow.com/forums/vie ... ht=portkil

[crusty_bint]

this is probably slightly tangntal, but just remembered this thread Socceroo and thought it might be of interest... we never did find out any more...

War Trenches

[Socceroo]

Strange trenches those. Only a guess here but given their depth and the fact that they are made from concrete i would hazard a guess that they were for storing munitions. They are very similar to trenches in the RNAD Beith.

Also another guess here, but from one of your photo's Crusty, i would say that the Concrete has either been made very poorly or it is older than WWII, perhaps the inter war period.

Was there any railways lines near the site of the trenches?

[crusty_bint]

There seemed to be remnants of industrial activity and possibly railway embankments just down the hill from the trenches, never actually thought to look at an old map to see. Old-mapos.co.uk is down just now, will have a look later. I think you're right tho, someone else said they wer pre WWI and II

[Socceroo]

A Thomas Hudson Ltd of Coatbridge, Air Raid Shelter being transported through St Enoch's Glasgow in 1939. Don't know if i would fancy being stuck in one of those in the middle of an Air Raid.

[HollowHorn]

Well, not with him, at any rate

[Socceroo]

The following article is from The Scotsman in February 1941, which for me is quite interesting in that it gives an insight to the Air Raid Shelter provisions in Glasgow.

The propoganda aspects of the article paint a picture that all is well with Glasgow's Air Raid provision, yet just the following month in March 1941, thousands died in the main Clydeside Blitz.

GLASGOW SHELTER

Miss Wilkinson’s Praise

THE STRUTTED CLOSES

Tributes to Glasgow’s City Engineer for the way he had tackled the problem of shelter accommodation was paid last night by Miss Ellen Wilkinson, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Home Security, when interviewed by Pressmen after her day’s tour of the city.

“I have seen a great deal in Glasgow”, she said. “I might call it a cross section of every kind of shelter, from the basement, communal domestic type, strutted closes, schools, Anderson trench, and a shelter in a Church crypt. I am told that the shelters including those in factories have provision for a million of the population and that I think is a very high proportion. Personally I think you have to congratulate your City Engineer. Not only has he done a good job but an imaginative one. He had a difficult problem to face, because of the high concentration of the population in those high tenement buildings.”

Miss Wilkinson considered that the surface brick shelter, with the reinforced arched roof was as good as anything she had seen in the country. The basement shelters seemed very good and, from what she was told, their strength was well above the specification laid down by the government.

STRONGER BUILDINGS

Referring to the strutted tenement closes, she noted that the buildings were very much stronger than those in London. The closes, however, were cold and draughty, but she learned that the City Engineer was trying to overcome that by arranging for a heavy curtain, which could be run up by the people themselves, she felt that stair windows in closes should have a covering of muslin or strong netting.

Women in the tenements told her that when an emergency arose, instead of standing in the strutted close, they usually were invited into homes of the tenants on the ground flats. The strutted close was a quick form of shelter in an area where there was no room for other types of shelter.

Commenting on a visit to tenement basement shelters she said that on the invitation of some women who hailed her at another shelter she visited the place they had arranged for a time of emergency. This basement had a stove, a cupboard with tea cups and the walls were papered quite attractively by themselves. Like the other shelters. It was well ventilated, and she was very pleased with the reception she received from the women.

DRY TRENCH SHELTERS

The trench shelters were the nightmare of all Local Authorities but those that she visited at Alexandra Park were extraordinarily dry, and she had not seen similar shelters as dry anywhere. Many of the owners of Anderson Shelters had made them very comfortable. Where the Anderson type could not be properly drained, she thought the best thing was to remove them and supply the new form of indoor shelter suitable for ground floor houses.

Miss Wilkinson was not much in favour of deep shelters, which a section of the people have been advocating.

“The deep shelter complex” she said. “Is a good way of losing the war. We don’t want our people to get the idea of a Maginot Line. If people get into deep shelters they tend to stay there, and if cities and towns were going to get showers of incendiary bombs, the able – bodied people would all be needed above the ground and not in deep shelters. London’s fire damage would not have been so heavy if the people had not been in their shelters, but now we have trained two – thirds of them to deal with the fire bombs.”

With regards to the Haldane shelter, she remarked that if areas with concrete availability used it in that way it would mean that other areas would have to go without. They could not claim that a shelter was bomb – proof unless it was 60 to 80 feet under the ground.

PROTECTION AFFORDED BY HOUSES

It had been found that the protection afforded by reasonably well – built houses was greater than had been imagined. It was amazing how people had been rescued from under stairways when the walls around had collapsed.

Miss Wilkinson denied a report that she had refused to meet a deputation when she lunched at the City Chambers.

“I saw the women parade in George Square”, she said, “ and read their placards. But I did not receive any request from a deputation. If an application were made in the proper way, by a recognised body, the arrangements would be made and they would be received.”

The incident referred to concerned about a dozen women, who marched in front of the City Chambers, carrying placards, which advocated tunnel and haldane shelters.

Sir Patrick Dollan, the Lord Provost, who accompanied Miss Wilkinson on part of her tour, said the demonstration did not represent the women of Glasgow, but were urged to make the protest by the Communist Party. He personally saw several leading Communists among the demonstrators.

[viceroy]

What exactly does 'strutted' mean as in strutted closes? Presumably they were re-inforced in some way to withstand the effects of a direct hit, the idea being to give some sort of protection to the residents within if any of the walls came down? Was the strutting actually inside the close or does it refer to external propping up of the tenement? Had a quick trawl through the rest of this thread but offhand couldn't spot any mention of this elsewhere. Any pictures?

[Socceroo]

Strutting as far as i am aware was internal to the lower close stairwells. What you had was heavy internal horizontal timbers just under the ceiling soffit of the lower close where it squared off coming down the stairwell. This could be at either the front and or rear of the tenement.

These horizontal timbers were supported on vertical timbers and the whole pocket was braced off. This basically was to form a reinforced pocket for the occupants of the tenement to take shelter. The idea being that if there was anything other than a direct hit near them and the tenement collapsed then they had a chance of surviving in the pocket until being rescued.

Then you had a baffle / blast wall a couple of feet outside the front and rear doors of the tenement. A lot of tenement closes did not have front and rear doors.

I think i have some diagrams and photos somewhere that i'll post when i find them.

One of the points i found a bit strange about the above article was the women who stated that they went into their neighbours houses on the ground floor during a raid instead of the strutted close.

If you look in some of the older tenements in Glasgow that that have not been refurbished interally by Housing Associations etc, you can sometimes see evidence of strutting, such as pockets which have been cut in the brickwork just under the ceiling to support / wedge heavy timbers and which have then been infilled and plaster patched after the war.

I recall seeing some of these patches in tenements in Shields Road and also in the West End.

[viceroy]

One of the points i found a bit strange about the above article was the women who stated that they went into their neighbours houses on the ground floor during a raid instead of the strutted close.

I imagine that the reasons for this would be mainly psychological. Safety in numbers perhaps, and to be in a more congenial environment during such a traumatic experience. Also, as you know, a tenement close acts a bit like an echochamber, in which sound is amplified and bounced back off the walls - the noise inside such a place during an air raid must have been absolutely terrifying.

[escotregen]

In the 1990s in Tollcross tenement rehab we came across the type of 'patches' in closes you referred to. We thought we figured out a link between them and the fact that for these particular closes it would have been difficult to have provided alternative (better?) shelter. For example, the back court might not have been big enough to have accommodated a communal brick shelter.

I agree with your comments about the propaganda aspects of the wartime article on Glasgow' shelter provision. In some parts it is similar to the nonsensical 'Protect and Survive' leaflet during the Cold War in the 1980s. One part of Protect and Survive's advice was to the effect that you could survive the nuclear holocaust hiding under a pass-door leaning against a wall in your hallway.

Its real purpose probably was to ensure that as many civilians as possible stayed put in their homes and quietly died and rotted there... a sort of 'Pause and Succumb' really

[Socceroo]

Following last night's synopsis of Glasgow's Air Raid Shelter's by Meees Wilkinson, tonight's offering is from Vice - Air Marshal O.T. Boyd who gave an address in Glasgow on the city's proposed Balloon Barrage arrangements for the impending war :

The Glasgow Herald 11th January 1939 :

AIR DEFENCE OVER GLASGOW
--------------------------------------------
BALLOON BARRAGE SCHEME EXPLAINED

Chief Air Vice – Marshall O.T. Boyd, commanding balloon barrage defences in Great Britain explained at a meeting of the Territorial Army and Air Force Association of Glasgow, held in the City Chambers yesterday, the scheme being undertaken for the city.

Three squadrons will be formed, with a total of 88 Balloons, which will be scattered round the objective like a minefield.

The idea of a balloon barrage, said Vice – Marshal Boyd, was not a complete novelty. It was tried on a very limited scale during the last war as part of the defences of London. Although it was not successful in attracting aircraft into its spider’s web, they believed it acted as a deterrent. The problem of air defence however, had changed. In the last war aircraft did not exceed 100 miles an hour, and they seldom attained that speed.

“Now we must expect a speed of 250 miles an hour at least, which may at any moment rise to 350”, said Vice – Marshal Boyd. “It makes the problem far more difficult.”

LOW – FLYING AIRCRAFT

“Beside the general problem of speed, which makes hitting by anti – aircraft guns more difficult, and interception by our own defence fighters more difficult, another form of attack has been evolved which has greatly added to the danger – and that is attack by low – flying aircraft at say, 300 feet.

A bomber coming in at that altitude is exceedingly difficult to attack in the air, and exceedingly diffcult, almost impossible to shoot with an anti – aircraft gun, other than a machine – gun or something of that sort.

It is here that the balloon barrage offers a really admirable deterrent.

It has the effect of driving the aircraft up to a considerable height, where they can be attacked by ground artillery, and where the fighter planes can have a reasonable chance of developing their tactics against them.

It is exceedingly difficult to see low flying aircraft from the air. We have felt for some time that it was essential to devise some means of driving them up”

Vice – Marshal Boyd remarked : “I am not at liberty to tell you to what height these balloons will ascend, but I can assure you it is considerably above 300 feet.”

The old conception that a balloon barrage, and what was still the normal conception of the man in the street, he continued, was a sort of palisade of balloons drawn round a possible objective. In practice, that presented considerable difficulty, and it was not as effective as the method which they were going to follow. Instead of making a definite circle of balloons, the balloons would be dotted about.

It was still the general misunderstanding that the balloons were tied together by cables , and that from these cables subsidiary cables hung down, into which it was hoped the hostile aircraft would fly. That conception had definitely been abandoned because it was not practicable.

The had now come to what they called “field siting,” as opposed to a surrounding palisade. That meant balloons being scattered round the area. It depended on the density of the barrage, but at the moment the balloons would be somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1000 feet apart.

“In effect,” said Vice – Marshal Boyd, “ we have a sort of aerial minefield laid in the city.”

[Socceroo]

Sorry if this is thread is beginning to bore you folks, but i am becoming a bit like Alycidon with the Iron Horses and Glasgowken with buses that is becoming passionate with a capital P about a particular subject matter...

Bombs over Glasgow ......

The following article fascinates me, we of particular generations think we know a city....but do we..?

From the Scotsman 11th December 1939:

AIR RAID TEST
---------------------------------------------
10,000 Workers in Glasgow Exercise
---------------------------------------------
Home Office Umpires

Ten thousand members of the Civil Defence Services of Glasgow – ARP workers, Auxiliary Firemen, first – aid and ambulance corps, Special Constables & co – were on duty yesterday in a large – scale exercise carried out in the north – eastern district of the city. The volunteers were taken by surprise, the exercise having been arranged by the Emergency Committee of Glasgow Corporation, who were anxious to test the efficiency of the various organisations.

There were about 40 Home Office umpires on duty, and the purpose of the exercise was that these umpires should make studied report on the incidents which took place in their respective areas. The results of the findings will be reported to the Emergency Committee, whose task it will be to remedy weak spots in the organisations.

At the conclusion of the test, it was officially stated that the response had been remarkably good. No previous warning had been given to any section.

Twenty – five incidents were supposed to have taken place in a severe attack from 12 enemy raiding machines. These included attacks on tenements which were set on fire, blown up bridges, destroyed streets, fire damaged supply centres, and many personal casualties. It was also presumed that mustard gas bombs had been dropped, and the use of these brought into operation several decontamination squads.

The districts affected were the Central Area, Townhead, Ruchill, Cowlairs, Springburn, Exchange, Provan, Parkhead and Bridgeton.

The excercises were watched by Lord Provost P.J. Dollan, other members of the Emergency Committee, and Sir Cecil Weir, representing the Civil Defence organisation in the West of Scotland.

It was learned that the Emergency Committee were also planning a siren test throughout the entire city.

Lord Provost Dollan officially opened yesterday the new Parkhead ARP headquarters which are situated in Kinloch Street. At the present moment, 37 out of 38 ward headquarters out of 38 in Glasgow have been opened, and the ceremony for the 38th will take place tomorrow.

Cheers

Socceroo

[AlanM]

Sorry if this is thread is beginning to bore you folks, but i am becoming a bit like Alycidon with the Iron Horses and Glasgowken with buses that is becoming passionate with a capital P about a particular subject matter...

Bombs over Glasgow ......

...
...
...

Cheers

Socceroo

Not at all, I find it fascinating and also realise that those with first hand experience of this time are becomming scarcer. This may be a 'last chance' to fully document this time in our city's past

[Socceroo]

I was talking recently to an old boy i know in his late seventies about what Glasgow was like during the war. Funnily enough since this thread started everytime i meet oldies these days i ask them about Glasgow during the war.

Way back on the first pages of this thread, Schiehallion posted some pics and info about the bombs that fell around George Square.

The old boy i was talking to recalls that quite a few buildings around George Square and the city centre were painted out with what he called "Lamp Black" which he reckoned was a mixture of a tarry bituminous substance and coal dust / soot.

He recalled it was done in a bit of a panic after the first raids as the Luftwaffe came in quite low under a bombers moon, and the Blonde Sandstone in open areas in particular was still quite luminous despite Glasgow's years of soot and grime. He also recalls parts of the Park Circus area looking over Kelvingrove being toned down / painted over.

A wee search shows me that there was a previous thread on Sand Blasting, so i won't dwell on too much on the subject other than ask the question has anyone else heard of this?

I was involved in a lot of refurbishments in the 1980's - the only time i really recall it getting discussed was with Canada Court in Miller Street which i think they gave up cleaning and painted over.