A Street Under Argyle Street

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Re: A Street Under Argyle Street

Postby chateaudulait » Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:37 pm

Ah the old shops under the central station thread.Image
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Re: A Street Under Argyle Street

Postby Mori » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:52 pm

malcysmith wrote:Ha i am exactly the same. Was the first thing i read when i joined this site a few years ago and has intrigued me ever since. Should hear late tomo night regarding whether it is true or not. I hope it is!

Malcolm


Any further on this malcysmith or is it just another urban myth ? :D
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rear Rennie Mackintosh Hotel

Postby toomse » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:19 am

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There’s a small gap between the external wall of the Station and the buildings on Union Street
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viewing south to Argyle Street
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rear of the Grant Arms in the distance
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Re: rear Rennie Mackintosh Hotel

Postby toomse » Thu Mar 26, 2009 1:24 pm

Does anyone know if there’s documented evidence to confirm the hotel was indeed part of Grahamston Village prior to the Station being built. I’ve explored along the bottom of the deep gully between the Stations external wall and the properties heading south down Union Street but could find no evidence to support this. There’s very little difference in the build work with next door at 39-53 Union Street




main archway directly below and behind the RM Hotel taken from inside the Station
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Re: rear Rennie Mackintosh Hotel

Postby toomse » Thu Jun 25, 2009 2:09 pm

anyone know the approximate date this was taken

thanks :)

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Re: rear Rennie Mackintosh Hotel

Postby toomse » Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:15 am

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Re: rear Rennie Mackintosh Hotel

Postby Dave » Sun Jun 28, 2009 8:50 am

Hi

http://www.theglasgowstory.com/story.php?id=TGSDG12

According to this article the Duncan's Hotel was part of the original Grahamston Village. Have a search in the Cetral Station thread I'm sure there are some pictures of demolition/construction and folk working on what might have been Alston Street.
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Re: rear Rennie Mackintosh Hotel

Postby clydebankcelt » Mon Jun 29, 2009 8:51 pm

Hi, i've been in that wee gully too between the station and the other buildings. We use one of the fire doors from the station arches to get out and check the cradle that's on central station roof above there. In fact i'm sure i have a few pics on this site of that area too. The door we use to get out leads from a chamber in the arches with some amazing model railway sets in it.
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Route of the Molindinar

Postby D17AVD » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:08 am

Fossil on Wed Feb 18, 2004 7:44 pm wrote:I’ve heard there is inspection hatches under Debenhams (Lewis) Building for flood control. used to smell quite damp in the basement(job interview years ago was told when its high tide water does come up that far). Does anyone know how many basements are in that building. I’m guessing 1( that’s in use) plus a further sub.
Does anyone know someone who work/works in top shop hmv virgin Lewis to shed some light.


Hi, I have just found this forum after doing a google search on the Molendinar burn. After reading a lot of your posts, and looking at the maps of the burn, it has thrown into doubt some info I'd been given years ago about the burn, and I'm hoping one of you can help put it straight. I am a train driver, and I sign the route through Glasgow Central Low Level. As you leave Argyle Street station heading west towards Central the track bed immediately crosses over a girder bridge within the tunnel. I was told many years ago by a Railtrack employee that this was the Molendinar, flowing down to the Clyde. This certainly fitted with what I'd been taught about it at school, as my geography teacher told us the burn flowed under what was then Lewis's in Argyle Street. According to the maps of it here though, it flows down to the Clyde a considerable distance to the east, so what flows under the bridge within the tunnel at Argyle St station?

This could be the same tunnel that I've seen from inside the railway tunnel. Could it be a burn/stream?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Route of the Molindinar

Postby Ronnie » Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:27 am

D17AVD wrote:I was told many years ago by a Railtrack employee that this was the Molendinar, flowing down to the Clyde. This certainly fitted with what I'd been taught about it at school, as my geography teacher told us the burn flowed under what was then Lewis's in Argyle Street. According to the maps of it here though, it flows down to the Clyde a considerable distance to the east, so what flows under the bridge within the tunnel at Argyle St station?


The St Enoch Burn flows a bit to the west, roughly from Mitchell Street to the Clyde. Scottish Water could tell you what the waterway below Lewis's is - give them a ring.
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Re: Route of the Molindinar

Postby Glesga_Steve » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:20 pm

Ronnie wrote:
D17AVD wrote:I was told many years ago by a Railtrack employee that this was the Molendinar, flowing down to the Clyde. This certainly fitted with what I'd been taught about it at school, as my geography teacher told us the burn flowed under what was then Lewis's in Argyle Street. According to the maps of it here though, it flows down to the Clyde a considerable distance to the east, so what flows under the bridge within the tunnel at Argyle St station?


The St Enoch Burn flows a bit to the west, roughly from Mitchell Street to the Clyde. Scottish Water could tell you what the waterway below Lewis's is - give them a ring.


I've worked on the sewerage side of the business for Scottish Water (or Strathclyde Regional Council, then West of Scotland Water and now Scottish Water) for the last 15 years and I couldn't you what this "waterway" is. And if I can't tell you, no-one in Scottish Water can - all my older colleagues have left over the years so I'm now the person with the greatest knowledge/experience of the drainage/sewerage/watercourse systems in the north (of the Clyde) of the city.
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Re: A Street Under Argyle Street

Postby Ronnie » Thu Jul 09, 2009 12:52 pm

Thanks, Steve. Just to be clear - are you saying that there's no flowing water under Lewis's, or that you don't know what it is. Ta.
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Re: A Street Under Argyle Street

Postby Glesga_Steve » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:38 pm

Ronnie,

I'm saying that I have no knowledge of any sort of burn underneath Debenhams (Lewis') or any other part of the St. Enoch Centre for that matter. I have never came across any evidence (physical or documented/recorded) during my career that would support it's existence and none of my colleagues (past or present) have ever made any sort of comment about such a thing.

I have previously referred to the existence of a burn named 'Gott' in a post I made in the St. Enoch Burn topic. In the times before Glasgow started to develop, it seems this burn ran east to west along the line of what is generally now Howard Street (i.e. along the southern side of the St. Enoch Centre) and then flowed into the St. Enoch Burn at what would now be roughly the junction of Howard Street/Dixon Street - see the below plan.

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Could the 'Gott' be linked to this supposed "waterway" under Debenhams? I have to say I strongly doubt that either the Gott or any sort of burn under Debenhams exists (though I believe the Gott did at one time) so my answer to this question would be no. I'm not foolish enough to say that I am definitely correct as I have found numerous previously uncharted underground burns during the course of my career. I have never found one in Glasgow city centre though (or any other city centre for that matter) and I don't believe any exist - so much development, and then redevelopment, and further redevelopment has taken place in the city centre over the last couple of centuries that I can't believe any such burns wouldn't have been found (and therefore almost certainly documented/recorded) by now.

There are a number of fairly large sewers in the vicinity of the St. Enoch Centre. I'm sure that one of these passes underneath the Centre in the immediate vicinity of Debenhams - I think it turns into Maxwell Street from Argyle Street and then runs directly south underneath the Centre and comes out at Howard Street (I'm on annual leave this week so am going from memory). I doubt this is what people are confusing for the supposed "waterway" though.

As for the pump in the (sub?)basement of Debenham's referred to elsewhere in this topic, my guess would be that its most likely purpose would be either (i) to pump low-level drainage from the building into the sewerage system (lots of buildings in the city centre are drained in this way) or (ii) to deal with groundwater (or a combination of the two).
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Re: rear Rennie Mackintosh Hotel

Postby gorevan » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:48 pm

Hi guys, this stuff is quite interesting :)
Me and a few mates are going to the mitchel library to look up a few books/maps.
also going to read the book about the grahamston village, my dad knows the author so should be helpfull :).
My dad is a Glasgow public house historian and can help out with a few things hopefully :)
This web site has been developed to record our local landmarks and to give a brief history on our old pubs. www.oldglasgowpubs.co.uk
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Re: A Street Under Argyle Street

Postby D17AVD » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:49 pm

I'm not sure at what depth below ground sewers normally run, but if that was what was under the railway line, then it would be slightly more than one storey down. If anyone of you are ever gettin on or off a train at Argyle St station, the girder bridge can I think be seen from the very end of the platform at the Central end. There's definately some water course down there, I dont think the railway engineers would have went to the bother of building a bridge within a tunnel for the fun of it.
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