old roads in and around cumbernauld/ Castlecary

[carrickstone emily]

I have been looking at old maps of Castlecary and Cumbernauld. There are a number of Roman roads mentioned. 1 in particular caught my eye in Castlecary. It seems to run from Castlecary castle until it reaches Fannyside Loch, and beyond. However on modern maps I have seen no mention. I went up to Castlecary to attempt to find it, but as yet have had no luck. There seems to be the remains of an old road beside a ruined farm stead opposite castle cary castle, just off Walton road. Could that be part ot it? I meet a local man while I was there with a metal detector, he seems to think the ruins are Castlecary cottage and that the road ran towards the fort near Castlecary old primary over the hillocks and through Walton farm. However I thought the old cottage was on the same side of Walton road as the castle and that the road should run towards Bandominie farm then Bandominie wood.

There is also an old Roman road/ drovers road beside me in Carrickstone. Does any one know the full origonal route of this road? Could this be part of the same road?

I hope to add some pictures and maps. This is my first post so it might be awhile.

[Beavis64]

Some info on the 'Slamannan Road' you were asking about in this post.

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5996&p=239429&hilit=cumbernauld#p239429

[carrickstone emily]

http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/maps/ ... 9272.55429

I hope this link connects to a map of Castlecary showing the old Roman road.

[carrickstone emily]

Cheers for that link. I have really enjoyed reading all the topics related to Cumbernauld and Castlecary. Its an interesting place.

[carrickstone emily]

http://visionofbritain.org.uk/maps/resu ... t%20Series

http://visionofbritain.org.uk/maps/resu ... 20Map%20of%

More old maps which show the old Roman road.
I do not think it is the same road as the old Slamannan road. I believe it ran to the East side of the smaller Loch.

[purplepantman]

Cheers for that link. I have really enjoyed reading all the topics related to Cumbernauld and Castlecary. Its an interesting place.

All of them?

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=5996&p=182927&hilit=roman+road+cumbernauld#p182927

[carrickstone emily]

Yes mr pantman, I have looked at the lot...i am turning into an anorak.

This map also shows the wall and roads really well
http://maps.nls.uk/roy/antiquities/view/?id=2413

There is definitely an old road beside castlecary cottage, but I don't think its Roman. But I have taken some photos
http://www.flickr.com/photos/73630309@N03/6641568893/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/73630309@N03/6641564405/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/73630309@N03/6641562331/

There is a really old map which also shows a ring road from Castlecary to Croy, cant find it now, will paste link again.
However I think the main military way that went south, travelled through Bandominie farm and woods, skirted past fannyside Muir and ends; who knows.

The link below also give a good description. Next plan of attack to go to Bondominie woods to try and find a track that fits the description. I will also try to find the south gate and look from that direction.

http://www.scotlandsplaces.gov.uk/searc ... S&id=72271

[purplepantman]

However I think the main military way that went south, travelled through Bandominie farm and woods, skirted past fannyside Muir and ends; who knows.

I'm not sure if you clicked on the link on my last post(?)
When I did a little bit of research into this road a few years back (again, see link), the 1806 map shows the road running south, past Plains in Airdrie...



The full map on the NLS website will answer your question...

http://maps.nls.uk/joins/734.html

I remember spending a lot of time a few years back comparing lots of old maps to Google satellite images
to see if I could see any trace of the Roman road - but gave up in the end as I was unable to do so.
I'm sure the road in your pictures is a red-herring (the road in the field with the large stones).
I'm positive this is a slightly more modern (19th century ??) farm road and not Roman.
I didn't seriously go looking for the road like you are doing, although I do know that area quite well.

There's a great old book full of folklore and stories about Roman Castlecary and the area.
The full thing is available on Google Books.
Here it tells you where the name Bandominie comes from...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=EIwO ... &q&f=false

Good luck!!

[carrickstone emily]

Thanks for that info. I will definitely give that book a read. At the risk of going off the track, pun intended, do you know where the old weavers dam is in Cumbernauld community park? Where is the old abandoned glasgow road, is that the road which heads towards tesco/Balloch or is it across the A80 in the village.

In the old 18th centuary plan of the Antonine wall ( previous post) the old drovers road is laid out, I do not believe the two roads are connected. I am thinking it follows the old Dyke stone wall, parallel(ish) to the new snake road, towards Tesco, then through the golf course to Croy and continues along the rail track. I have only walked as far as Croy station.

[purplepantman]

do you know where the old weavers dam is in Cumbernauld community park? Where is the old abandoned glasgow road, is that the road which heads towards tesco/Balloch or is it across the A80 in the village.

I've never heard of the old weavers dam.

I think the Old Glasgow Road you speak of is the road which (now) terminates at The Spur.
Believe it or not, someones put a video of it on You Tube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJAsqCACGTk

In the old 18th centuary plan of the Antonine wall ( previous post) the old drovers road is laid out, I do not believe the two roads are connected. I am thinking it follows the old Dyke stone wall, parallel(ish) to the new snake road, towards Tesco, then through the golf course to Croy and continues along the rail track. I have only walked as far as Croy station.

The Zoar Road, is well described here...

http://www.croyhistorical.org.uk/smithston

Hope this helps!

[Icecube]

Drove roads it seems to me is an overused label, as if you couldn't walk a long one unless you had a hundred sheep in front of you.
Most 'Lowland' roads categorised as such by contemporary observers were actually called 'parish roads' in the Statistcal Accounts. i.e. lanes/loans used by everybody to get from A to B.

As for remains of Roman yins, forget it. Well disappeared under the plough.

[carrickstone emily]

That's a shame. I was hoping there would be some remains, have you searched yourself. I am not a Cumbernauld local and simply read the signs posted by the old road which call it a drovers road. I am amazed that a lot of local history is recorded by the names which remain in Cumbernauld, not only is cumbernauld a micro weather system. It seems to be a representation by default of modernisation, with names and unexplained bumps in the road clinging on to the past. I suppose in times gone by the drovers walked more than your average bear to markets and such and posterity records their influence, money talks and in ancient times exchanging cattle for pounds was important. Perhaps the drovers exchanged ideas, news etc on the way, a lot of old inns etc would have been kept afloat by the drovers passing through and markets would have been a time of community get togethers and a chance to sell your glut. This is me surmising of course.

[purplepantman]

That's a shame. I was hoping there would be some remains....

I'm certainly no expert but I do believe there must be some remains of the Roman road running south from Castlecary.

These remains are not always obvious to the amateur's eye.

You provided a link to a page on Scotlands Places and the archaelogical notes read as follows;

From the fort at Castlecary (NS77NE 24) a short branch road led southward to the farm at Crowbank, situated upon the higher land, where there seems to have been some kind of look-out station (see NS87NW 8; alleged Roman walling at NS 8016 7570). Its course is traceable through the woodland SW of the fort till it falls into the present road leading towards Walton farm, following this for 300 yds and then diverging again on the E side through another wood. On reaching a small stream the road turns eastward along its N bank, where it is visible as a terrace with some exposure of the metalling and kerbstones. Then, opposite Walton farm, it crosses the stream and ascends the steep southern bank by a well-preserved terrace, joining the present road where this turns sharply S at the farm and following it for a few yards before diverging into the fields on the E, where its ploughed-up stones are sometimes visible. It now takes a straight course towards Crowbank, passing through a small plantation, Bandominie South Wood, where it is fairly visible. It crosses the Walton Burn by terraces down the steep banks, resuming the line beyond, and the road becomes very plain as it approaches Crowbank. There are no indications that it ever continued beyond.

Ten years later in 1967;
NS 7911 7735 to NS 7885 7740 Turf-covered metalled road 7.5m wide. Traces of ditch on N side.
Massive kerb stones visible at NS 7889 7739, and massive stone metalling exposed at NS 7906 7736.
The only evidence of a possible Roman road.

As time goes by, the evidence disappears more and more but this was written only 50 years ago and the area really hasn't changed that much. Yes it's been farmed but it's not been obliterated by opencast mining or anything like that.
Gather all the info you can. Know exactly where you should be looking and what you should be looking for.
The physical evidence is not always obvious and can be very subtle and easily missed but I'm sure it's there and if your prepared to get your wellies boggin', you might just find it.

[carrickstone emily]

I think you're right. There will b some evidence left. While other parts will be under more modern roads. Fannyside Muir tracks are probably gone now due to peat cutting and farming. However I think in the woods around Castlecary there will tracks. I'll Give it a go.