Elgin Place Congregational Church Destruction

[Bruce]

Oh! I have a feeling this one is going to run & run - and I can't see the council getting away with it scot-free.

It looks like a listed building application has been submitted for the retrospective demolition of the building on West Nile St (the bay horse).

Could be interesting if they have to do the same thing for Elgin Place?

[Pgcc93]

This weeks Nooks and Corners in the latest issue of Private Eye has a whole chunk devoted to the destruction Elgin Place Congregational Church. Piloti, better known as Gavin Stamp.

'
'the council now has the impudence to to apply for world heritage status on account of the handful of Mackintosh buildings it failed to destroy in the 1960s and 1970s. For the Philistine councillors, of course, Mackintosh only means tourism and money'

Cheers
CC

The cooncil has a better chance of World Heretic status more like

I sincerely hope the matter isn't over with and the person/persons behind the decision to completely demolish let alone retain a percentage of the surviving building fabric are called to account for thier actions.

[cumbo]

Now is our chance to put the freedom of information act to the test.
who was it and why?

[gap74]

Ah, splendid idea, and one I've been toying with since New Year!

Have submitted the following request - helpfully, Glasgow City Council have an online submission form for FOI requests!

Will keep you all posted if I get a response, and suggest that anyone seeking answers to any other aspect of this debacle submit a request at once!

"I would like information relating to the decision by your building control department to authorise the demolition in late December 2004 of the former Elgin Place Congregational Church in Pitt Street. This building had been damaged in a fire just before Christmas, whilst operating as a nightclub called The Shack. In particular, I would like to see any documentation that may clarify why total demolition was considered necessary, and why no elements of the building were considered salvageable.

I am concerned that not enough effort may have been made to save any parts of this historic building, and would therefore like to know what basis the decision to completely demolish the structure was made on."

Gary

[cumbo]

nice one

[duncan]

Have submitted the following request - helpfully, Glasgow City Council have an online submission form for FOI requests!

good luck with that, i'm still waiting to hear the results of my appeal against their refusal to answer any of my questions!

[paladin]

i'm still waiting to hear the results of my appeal against their refusal to answer any of my questions!

Careful what you wait for, didn't you request an initial response via e-mail to get a snail-mail instead? If they know you are waiting to 'hear' results of your appeal.......they could very well be dispatched by carrier pigeon.
Beware the Ides of March......is not the 4th March the proposed 'hear by' date. ?

[Closet Classicist]

Re your freedom of information letter GAP 74 (Gary!):

"I would like information relating to the decision by your building control department to authorise the demolition in late December 2004 of the former Elgin Place Congregational Church in Pitt Street. This building had been damaged in a fire just before Christmas, whilst operating as a nightclub called The Shack. In particular, I would like to see any documentation that may clarify why total demolition was considered necessary, and why no elements of the building were considered salvageable.

Good on you! I e-mailed in something very similar to the new City Plan comments address last night. In case anyone doesn't know, and I only found out about this on Wednesday evening, today is the cut off for contributing comments on the present Glasgow City Plan that will be taken cognisance of to help shape the new one. Sorry for not posting this earlier but you can still send comments to '[email protected]' before the close of play today. My comments where on policy HER 2 in the Built Heritage section. This is the one that deals with listed buildings.

After having a rant about how the cooncil are demonstrably failing their duties of stewardship of Glasgow's Built heritage and singling out Elgin Place Congregational Church as an example of how they completely failed to exercise their duties under part 51 of National Planning Policy Guidance 18 which is:

51. In cases of demolition or significant alteration of historic buildings and townscape planning authorities, should, wherever practicable, seek to ensure that as many fixtures, fittings and architectural details are salvaged from the works as possible. Planning authorities should inform applicants of the importance of the construction materials and details such as doors, windows, shop-fronts, ashlars and fireplaces prior to the application being determined. Planning authorities should also consider attaching conditions to any consent to ensure their long-term preservation and re-use.

I then went on to say that this policy section (HER 2) needs to be re visited as it is failing at present:

Some kind of mechanism needs to be examined and incorporated into a future policy HER 2 whereby emergencies such as this fire and partial collapse can be accommodated effectively. In the instance of the Elgin Place Congregational Church, we are not privy to the facts, but on the surface there does not appear to have been a joined up approach between Glasgow City Council departments. The Building Control department's issue of a 'Dangerous Building' notice (which resulted from the partial collapse of the church's west gable onto the adjacent tenement) appears to have been the trigger for demolition. It seems odd that one unstable feature should be sufficient justification for obliterating an entire building. Why was it not possible to surgically remove or stabilise the offending gable? Was this option explored? As we have indicated earlier other parts of the building gave the appearance of being structurally sound, indeed there is footage available on the internet that demonstrates that the portico had enough structural integrity to partially disable the arm of the wrecking rig. These parts of the building had remained sound for weeks without any propping. Therefore it would be interesting to know what kind of engineering assessment had been carried out and whether the original drawings, that where available in the Mitchell, had been retrieved to assist in this endeavour. If so was this information forwarded on to Building Control by Heritage and Design so they could have made an informed and strategic decision that would not have resulted in wholesale loss?

Be interesting to know what the answer is if I ever get one! But do you know some kind of campaign along the liens of your request might not be a bad idea. If we get enough people sending in a Freedom of Information request along the lines of what you asked for maybe GCC will get the message that they have failed here and this will give them pause to rethink their approach?

Cheers

CC

[turbozutek]

Know what's gonna happen ?

Nothing.

No one cares - sure there are little pockets of resistance such as this website but overall the great retarded british public are more interested in Big Brother or what's for lunch than anything of importance.

A new class war is evident - the lower (ned) classes can do what the f-ck they like without fear or getting anything more than a few hours community service.

The 'upper' classes can do the same, safe in the knowledge that the 'middle' classes are nothing but apathetic scum.

Meanwhile the 'middle' classes are getting r-ped left right and centre with tax this, parking fine, speeding points, don't do this and don't do that, new terrorist legislation and compulsary IDs bullshit.

We are doomed, well and truly f-cked as the population gets stupider and stupider - and the government more paranoid, facist and right wing.

Chris...

[escotregen]

Chris you sound as though you fell off Wellington's horse when you woke up this morning.
Fact is life was ever thus, we are not doomed 'cos tvarious bad things are getting badder - we always were doomed; as the man said 'nobody get's out of hear alive'. We aint owed anything in this world and we gotta keep struggling for what small victories we get. Take it from a deconstructed ex-marxist, class imagery get's us nowhere.
Now back on topic, you haven't given us your theory about why the statue to Wellington was built when it was built.

[turbozutek]

Now back on topic, you haven't given us your theory about why the statue to Wellington was built when it was built.

You are right Esco - we need to just sit back and put up with the bullshit. Hey, why don't we just tell them to ream us a bit deeper ? Maybe we could get a day off for good behaviour!

Further, Welly's horse isn't the topic of this thread [see the title] - it is the new -off topic- that this thread has become. When this happens any topic that drifts into a persons' head is fair game including the geopolitical juxtaposition that is the current 'new class emulation' of society, current to the topic.

Chris...

PS: Also of note is the fact that I'm fucking with you.

[escotregen]

OK your right about the topic (offers apology with ill grace whilst sucking thumb in fit of petulance)... but I think you are secretly just a semioligist therefore everything is reduced to t- r- e- e as signifiars that only become the concept of 'tree' when constructed in the stated sequence... at least that's more credible than the 'new class emulation'
But that's the last time I digress from the new off-topic

[turbozutek]

To topic then.

[Molendinar]

(ooh, sorry for bigness)

Also, the building shows a final act of defiance, by knocking the scoop off one of the diggers: http://galah.src.gla.ac.uk/~martin/dohdigger.mp4

CC I'd be careful about referring to evidence of stability. I like a couple of others hadn't seen this video, and I think collectively a new born urban myth of the ilk of "the architect of the kelvingrove art galery commmitted suicide cos the building was the wrong way round" has sprung up. Looking at the vid this morning I was pretty disappointed to see a scoop just fall off a digger.

Sigh, I still think it'd be worthwhile to get hold of detailed reports on the buildign's pre-demolition condition.

[cumbo]

Sceen 1:In a room below the City Chambers,the evil Malik reads another e mail,(in the style of Scooby Doo) 'those pesky kid's at Hidden Glasgow are going to get it this time'......